S2, E24: Why Would Anyone Run 100 Miles with Jesse Rich

You can be fit, tough, and motivated and still get wrecked by a simple mistake like the wrong breakfast. We sit down with ultra runner and nutrition coach Jesse Rich to trace the real path from “I don’t like running” to finishing and competing in ultramarathons, including the hard-earned lessons that only show up when you’re deep into a 50K or staring down a 100-mile day.

Jesse breaks down the moment that changed everything: a brutal Speedgoat 50K where stomach issues turned a promising start into survival mode. That failure pushes him into formal nutrition education and years of trial, error, and refinement in sports nutrition for endurance athletes. We talk hydration, electrolytes, sodium, carbohydrates, and why “training the gut” is a skill you build on long runs, not a gamble you take on race day. If gels make you gag or your stomach shuts down late, you’ll recognize yourself here.

We also zoom out to the bigger world of trail running and ultrarunning: how the sport has exploded, how UTMB has become a global target, and why even high-level athletes can struggle to make the economics work. Jesse shares how he turns his experience into a coaching career, what kinds of athletes reach out for help, and how family life, aging, recovery, and time constraints change the way you train. The thread that ties it together is simple: consistency wins, fueling is performance, and “white space” might be the most underrated training tool we have.

If you’re training for your first ultra marathon, chasing a PR at a local trail race, or trying to stop blowing up in the final hours, this conversation gives you a smarter way forward. Subscribe, share this with a friend who’s training, and leave a review with your biggest fueling question.

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Transcript

Trail Running Without Loving Running

SPEAKER_00 0:53

I don't like running. Why would I get into this? Something about being on the trails and running kind of made me interested. It's amazing how just one person saying, like, hey, I think you could be pretty good at this. That actually is incentivized education and nutrition. So I did my undergrad in Spanish at Utah State. I just wanted to find the quickest undergrad to get to grad school. Not feeling this isn't working for me. So I started four progressions. So started coaching people, started doing nutrition, became a personal trainer, so I could kind of offer all three. Liquid carbs for me work a lot better. So that was an aha moment of I can keep up on water, electrolytes, and carbs just by using this powder. Taking some time at eight stations, eating some real food really helped.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

So you have this experience doing this hundred mile error, but you also kind of get hooked at the same time. Yeah. And like I always hate when I stop running, then my body's like, so we're not running.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Cool. And then I'll start running again. And it's like getting my legs back and my lungs back. And I'm like, do I actually like this? But then I mean a month later I'm like, oh, this is enjoyable again. Like I don't have to think about like not dying after two miles or getting past like one mile slump. And but I I used to have that mentality of like if I can always have a like a half marathon on the book, then I can always be in shape to run 13 miles. And if I'm always in shape to run 13 miles, then I'm not gonna get fat.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

And you were, I remember you were you were running marathons like in high school, weren't you? No marathons.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

No, it was like my family, really. Like, because my my family is the family that runs like um races on holidays. Okay. Like my like we're doing the uh Des News 20, I mean um 5 or 10k on the 24th. And my that's like one of my mom's like group chat, I'll pay for everybody's entries for who wants to go. Nice and everybody's in. It was her birth, her 70th birthday in April. So we all did the solid half marathon. Okay. And so it's like nice to have a family that kind of bullies me into running. Uh-huh. But because like I'm always like exercising in some way. Like I've been consistent about going to the gym for the past like 15 years, but like high school never did. It was like I'd run if it was for like sports, but never like just to go run, even though my mom was running probably like two or three marathons a year.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, no, I think it was like at Steiner. I saw you ran into you, and I think I think you started before I did, and it was it was cool. You're like, Yeah, I'm training for a half, and kind of asked about your training. And uh, so in a way, man, kind of inspired me. You started before.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

You're welcome. Just kidding. But no, Jesse, I'm excited because you're the third one of the I mean, Rich Trabert, kind of because I had Warner Trabert on, talked about Flee Lee, had Thane on really uh recently talking about because it he was fun because I hadn't. There's like a couple people I've had on the podcast where like I went one way, went to college, went down like the corporate America route, and then some friends went, I mean, professional skiers, art, like all these other just completely different paths. And so it's fun to be like, let's just go through the whole thing. And so for Thane, like giving me like the back story of him in high school of like these ski trips or like these early sponsors that I didn't really know about, but then it all kind of turned into this career. And I mean, you know the rest better than I do, but it's interesting. So I'm excited to hear yours because, like I was saying, is like my girlfriend has gotten me very um into the running community, and then all of like her content that she consumes of running and trail running and ultra running, and then like leveling the podcast and like being like, well, my friend both runs and trains people and is like someone who's like very active in the community. So I'm like, who better than to pick their brain about and like hear how it all started?

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_02 4:44

I appreciate it. But like because I was thinking about like my experience with you, because like the last memory I have in my head was it was after my high school, and it was at your house in Foothill, which ironically Warner lives in now. And it was like me, it was I was saying goodbye to Timmy Bergren because he was going to Vermont to go play soccer, and I was gonna go on a mission soon. And I just remember being at your like that was at your house and like everyone was hanging out, and then everybody kind of went their way. But like, I don't can correct me if I'm wrong, because I was trying to think about it, I couldn't, but I don't remember you being like the most like athletic person in high school. No, so I'm curious how you just were like, hey, you know, we're gonna start running, and we're gonna start running a lot.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

Yeah, yeah. I mean, we we I think we were on the same team for a couple years in lacrosse, and high school was just an experiment. I just didn't ever commit to a sport. I knew I wasn't gonna play in college in anything, so I played like six different sports, and I was like okay at them. I never really like loved any of them enough to like fully pursue them and continue playing them. So just kind of had fun in different sports in high school and in general didn't really take life seriously in high school at all. No, I'm not sure. Yeah, no, I was I was real lackluster in in in both like school and sports, and sloughed a lot, you know, probably have one of the better records of of sloughing east, but uh yeah, no, and then I I also you know I did like a little stint at Salt Lake Community College and then went on my mission um to Paraguay. And then when I got back during that time, my older brother had gotten into uh trail running. Okay, so this was 2011. I think I started running, yeah, right around 2011-2012. Um, and funny enough, I mean, I I did listen to that podcast he did with Thane, and Eric was an inspiration to me too, you know. He he got us all started, and yeah, he went on a trail run with me, and he's like, dude, I I run with like people who race, and like, I think you're actually pretty good. And I was like, that's random. Like, I don't like running. Why would I get into this? But something about being on the trails and running kind of made me interested, and like it's amazing how just one person saying, like, hey, I think you could be pretty good at this, like, just makes you want to be like, All right, well, maybe I can be

Brother’s Push And Early Races

SPEAKER_00 7:15

just that little hint of like confidence and someone believing in you. I was like, All right, cool. So we started running together and I gradually got into it, and yeah, 2012 was my first race, which was a trail marathon in Park City. Yeah. Um, and like I ended up getting ninth of like kind of like random training and putting things together. I'm like, okay, like, all right. And then yeah, Eric encouraged me to do speed goat, which is a 50k at Snowbird. Yeah, it's like definitely not your first, it should not be your first 50k.

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Yeah. Um, and so we performed trail race where it's like, hey, it's Alta or Snowbird. I'm like, there is a lot of vert and good luck. So to go from oh, I'll do my first to be like, all right, speed goat.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

But also, I mean it's so validating to be like, oh, but your my brother says I'm good, so I'll do this.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

And then have like a broader validation, like, oh, like ninth place, okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

Yeah. Yeah. It's like, yeah, well, he's doing it. We can train together. And um, we had some ridiculous runs in training, like we didn't know anything about nutrition back then. So we just would do like 20 miles with like barely anything. We had some really rough long runs um in preparation, and sure enough, speedgoat comes up, and like we were raised like eating healthy, and so I'm like, hey, you know, like I'll eat a salad before that's healthy before racing, you know. Like, let's get vegetables, let's get nutrients in my body. And it was a terrible decision, and like I had really bad stomach problems that first 50k, the first ultra I ever did. Um, I finished, I didn't want to finish, um, but they they kept me going and kicking me out of the aid stations, and I wasn't really able to eat or drink anything, it was a disaster. And after that race, I was kind of like, man, I wanna I wanna figure this out.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

That was really sad not to be able to like if you're trying to keep up with everything life throws at you work, workouts, long runs, rounds of golf, whatever it might be, having your nutrition dialed matters. That's why I use gnarly nutrition from supporting my recovery to fueling performance and helping me feel good no matter what I've got going on. And even better, they're located right here in Utah. Whether you're in the gym, on the trail, or just trying to get through your day, gnarly has you covered. Check them out through the link in the description to see why they become part of my daily routine.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Race to my potential because of nutrition.

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yeah, and especially when you have these two experiences of like you're training with your brother, and like that's kind of what you've known at that point. It's an again, like older brother syndrome, like you know, you know best. I'm gonna follow you, I'm gonna trust you. You have a good race. But then I imagine there's part of that speed go where you're seeing all these other people, you're like, I can run as much as they can, as fast as they can. Why aren't they having these issues? Yeah, which has got to be as frustrating as could be.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

It really was, it really was. I I think I was like in eighth place at the start, like at the first peak, and I ended that race in 100th place. Wow. For my first whole trip. So I was just losing places, and I'm just like, and that's and that's even funny because once I was starting to feel better, and like I drank some water and had some food at one of the aid stations and finally like recovered. And it's funny because I ended up passing like 20 people, so technically I think I was in like 125th, like right in the middle of the race. So it was disheartening, and I was like,

Speedgoat Blowup Sparks Nutrition Study

SPEAKER_00 11:18

okay, let me figure this out. And that actually what is what incentivized like the education in nutrition. So I I I did my undergrad in Spanish at Utah State. Uh, I just wanted to find the quickest undergrad to get to grad school. Yeah, so I just you know tested out of a lot of those courses, um, did my prereqs, and then went to um Oregon for my master's in nutrition. Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

And so it's really a great place to go for like running nutrition and studying.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Oh man, those years of my life were so special because I was able to run Forest Park, which is kind of the huge urban trail, you know, network. So I was just running all the time and really focused on on studying, doing like odd and end jobs while I was in school. And just kind of, yeah, I was like, all right, now I kind of want to start taking running more seriously. Started running more, um, studying along the way how I can, you know, fuel my body and um gradually started kind of like getting competitive, you know, a lot of kind of like podium performances in Oregon.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

A little bit of everything.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Yeah, yeah. No, I I was like pretty committed to like 50k and above. So yeah, just focusing on that distance.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

Uh were there any, because I know that during that time you're like, I mean, it's gotta be cool to be studying something and so into that, but then also be in a place where you can be so into running itself and kind of have this bridge between the two where you're learning about, I mean, like macronutrients and like phytochemicals and everything that goes into this to be like, oh, well, if I would have known this, I probably wouldn't have had that salad. I probably would have had something a little bit more. And so during that time, are you like approaching this very scientifically to be like, oh, well, this time I'm gonna try this, see how this feels, or like let's do this during the race, or was it mostly just kind of exploring and experiencing during that?

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Yeah, so the the program was really kind of like you know, how to how to science based on how to like stay healthy and prevent disease. Oh, okay, got it. And so the sports nutrition aspect, I kind of had to like piece it together, but I'm glad I had that foundation, like that science foundation of nutrition and how it works and what are carbohydrates before diving into sports nutrition. And then I kind of like, yeah, I just dived right into textbooks and sports nutrition specifically, and I still plan on extending my education in in sports nutrition specifically. Um, but I've spent a lot of lot of time after my master's just like honing in on sports nutrition because even in Oregon there was still a lot of lot of mistakes, a lot of problems. And with my brother Eric, it was this thing that I I think we just kind of wanted to be tough, you know? Oh yeah, like we don't need that much water, like enjoy this suck.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

I'm gonna like I can grind through this, totally, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:13

Like, why why do you need so much food? Like, we don't need that, and so it kind of became this mentality of like, oh, like we don't need that much stuff anyway. And at that time, 10 years ago, even in ultra running nutrition, there wasn't a huge emphasis on eating and drinking enough. It was just like, oh, whatever, you know, like have a gel every hour kind of thing. Um, but there wasn't a huge amount of like information on how to hydrate properly and sodium, electrolyte consumption. It's it's progressed so far. So not only did I already have that mentality of like I don't need to eat or drink that much, but also it really wasn't being promoted at that time in in the culture, and so that combination, like I was racing, but like the back half of my races, I'd always like push out and get into first, and then the second half would be kind of a disaster because I'm not fueling. So I still was missing that piece. I'm like, okay, I'm feeling that I'm getting more and more fit and experienced in pacing and racing, but I still need to figure out this nutrition component.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

Um was there so it seems like because you go from speedgo where 100 plus middle of the pack, you finished, to now you're starting to get these podiums and getting more success. I mean, was there, I imagine there's like little steps of things that you learned along the way, but what were some of those changes that you made or things you learned to go from a hundredth to top three?

SPEAKER_00 15:35

For sure. Yeah, I mean, in racing, it's like one of the biggest things is just experience. You just got to race more. So I was putting in more volume. Okay, you know, I was getting up to that kind of like 60, 70 miles a week. It was more of just like study and run kind of life, and I loved it. Like it was fine. And we had a small class of about 70 people, and so we became pretty close friends too. So I'd hang out with them on weekends, but for the most part, it was like study, run, you know, work at this smoothie shop a little bit and just like try to figure it out. Cool. So yeah, just consistency and then experience racing. Pacing is a very hard thing to understand without like experimenting it of like how hard do you go at the beginning? And okay, well, a 50K is paced very differently than a hundred K.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

So figuring out how to adjust those things and and it's so personal, it's like it is you have to you almost have to hit those limits to know, okay, well, I can't do that, but let's work back from there and see what works right.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Yeah, it's hard because even as a coach, like I tell people, we can look at your heart rate and try to predict where you should be, but it really is I can coach you and train you up into the race, but the race itself, you kind of have to just figure it out. Like we've done all the work up into the race, but you have to understand yourself. I don't understand you as well as you do. And so those little micro decisions in a race, it just takes like a lot of practice and repetition to understand. And you come to me after a race and say, Hey, the second half I kind of blew up. Okay, now we have more information. Yep, more you race, the more I can understand where there's problems and adjust. So that's what I was doing for myself. Okay, so pacing kind of was going out too fast, wasn't eating enough. I had this drop-off in the back half, so I just kept you know tinkering with that, and then finally did my first hundred in Idaho, and um it was okay. I uh shoes have gone a long way.

SPEAKER_02 17:38

I made some really bad shoe decisions, and that sounds like a stupid excuse, but like my everybody who runs knows like yeah, the difference between a good shoe and a bad shoe, and it's all subjective is one thing, but then you could be running in a shoe for three years, and then they make a change to a shoe, and now you have to go find a new shoe, and that's of like recent technology. Like, even so, one of my really good friends who um ironically like rollerbladed like a lot here when he was going to BYU, but then he moved to Oregon and worked at Nike and the real estate team. And so, and like I'm very brand loyal person in general, and Nike's one of those things, and like even talking to him over the last eight years about shoes, it's like, oh cool, like at first, like Nike had the wild horse, and like that was their one kind of trail run shoe, and now it's like everybody has a like every model of Nike shoe has a trail version, and that's just like one brand of brand, and then there's the brands that specifically focus entirely on trail, like, and it's so crazy to see how it's come because like I can't even imagine of like that experience, and then you learn later on like training plus like race day um knowledge and what to do then, and then nutrition and hydration. So many factors, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:48

Yeah, so I I wore these like pretty low cushion shoes that you know I thought would be good for a hundred miles, and my ankles both just like swelled up, and like I

Learning Pacing And Surviving 100 Miles

SPEAKER_00 18:59

yeah, it was it was a kind of a disaster. So um the first hundred was like I think everyone has this experience. Hundreds are its own category of of suffer, like it's hundreds or something else because you were talking 20 hours-ish out there, but it it intrigued me. And like I I first pay somebody in the bare 100 the last 25 miles, and he barely made the cutoff. It was a it was a friend, and funny enough, he owns a sandal company, a running sandal company. Of course, you gotta rep the brand, of course. So he did it in sandals, um, Luna sandals, they're actually pretty cool, but like probably not for the run. Yeah, you do not run in those shoes anyway. So, yeah, he suffered, and like I met met him up at 75 and finished with him, and I'm like, man, seeing all the carnage in that aid station at miles 75. I'm like, this is the dumbest thing, man.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Why would anyone ever volunteer pay money to just literally like get as close to it's gotta be close to like a war zone, like oh my nurs camp, people are screaming, people are on their back, feet aren't working, hunched over.

SPEAKER_00 20:09

Yo, and on our way to the aid station, someone's like, please can you give me a ride up there, man? I'm done. Like he's limping, and I'm like, This is my first exposure to 100. Like, whoa, these people are absolutely like dying out here. Um, so we go out of the aid station and I I finish it off with him. And seeing him finish, I'm like, Oh, I get it. Yeah, like this is this is this is a suffer fest, but what an accomplishment, like what a cool thing. And so, yeah, I think it was like two, three years later I did my first hundred, and I'm like, okay, yeah, this is this is the hardest thing I've ever done, but one of the most rewarding things. So I kind of got hooked on on the hundreds. Um, and I still do a wide range of distances, but hundreds became kind of like my what I wanted to pick apart the most and figure out. So yeah, over time I just graduated from school, um, got an offer here, actually worked at a naturopathic clinic for some time as a nutritionist. And yeah, like we were kind of talking about before, like it's it's uh it's it's strange working for someone else. I kind of always envisioned working for myself. And so after a while, I'm like, I I'm not I'm not feeling this, this isn't working for me. So I started uh four progressions, started coaching people, started doing nutrition, became a personal trainer, so I could kind of offer all three. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Was that like an idea that was like in the back of your head, or was it mostly a way of thinking about I mean, your own entrepreneurial journey of something you wanted to do or just like not work for someone else? Or how did that like idea get started in your own head?

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Good question. Yeah, so I really loved the nutrition program I did. One of the electives was a business course of like, okay, if you want to be your own business, this is what we're gonna do. Um, and so I had already had that in my mind of starting an online business coaching and doing nutrition, but didn't really know where to start. I was kind of scared to get going. Um, but as I was working in that clinic, I kind of started as a side gig. Yep. And yeah, continued to race and started to build up a little roster. I think I started at like 99 bucks a month. Uh I actually didn't even, funny enough, someone had asked me to coach them. I never really planned on the coaching part. I was kind of planning on starting the nutrition business with athletes. And um WASH 100, I had a good good year there, and then I just started getting inquiries like, hey, do you coach? And I'm like, no, but if you want to be a guinea pig, like let's do it. 99 votes. No promises, but uh I really can't guarantee anything.

SPEAKER_02 22:56

Um and I guess like going back a little bit, I mean, like at what so you have this experience doing this hundred miler, but you also kind of get hooked at the same time.

Turning Nutrition Into Coaching

SPEAKER_02 23:04

I mean, going back to that question of like what started to piece it together, like what were some of those like aha moments? And I know there's gonna be things that are like more broad of like, yeah, you should probably take electrolytes, but then there's more of those things of like, okay, for me, I need to stay in like this zone more than this, or like if I get to this part, like I mean, walk me through kind of what made you enjoy those more, made you be more successful.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Yeah, yeah. I think it's just a lot of patience. Understanding and the nutrition. Yeah, like I was like, okay, I need to be intaking more than I have been. And I gotta find something that works. So there's so many products out there now, too. And I don't want to, you know, uh be too rude to go, but everyone knows goose, right? Oh yeah, they were the first of everything. They're their first gel. Literally, they were. Yeah. And they were horrendous, man. And I just didn't know anything else. And I'm like, I I don't know how I can teach myself to like this. No, but I don't see it happening. And so I would just underfuel all the time. Um, so yeah, finding Tailwind, um, not sponsored, not affiliated, but like it's basically just a powder that you make some water. I'm like, oh wow, liquid carbs for me work a lot better. So that was an aha moment of like, okay, I can keep up on water, electrolytes, and carbs just by using this powder. Um taking some time at aid stations, eating some real food really helped. Uh like before that, would you mostly like, oh, like aid stations or something in the way, like just keep going and stuff? Yeah, yeah. Just fill up water and go. And for hundreds, it is good to have some of that kind of like, you know, even if it's just simple fruit or something, it helps kind of balance the stomach a little more. So, yeah, all those things really, really added up and started. And again, just like the the confidence, like I still hadn't won anything until um my first my first race that I won was actually in France, funny enough, where my wife is from. And that was a huge surprise. And so about that.

SPEAKER_02 25:04

Well, I mean, anyway, what was it like yeah? I mean, going abroad and racing, but then also like I mean, I I've just the little bit that I know of what you had to go through to be able to like win the race and be the first person across the finish line. I mean, that's gotta be pretty unreal.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

It was, it was. I didn't know what to expect. So um one of my first races that I had done was actually in Europe in Spain before I had met my wife. Um it's called a vertical kilometer. It's like a it's like a straight up race. You go up a full kilometer in distance um in vertical and a 5k distance. So in three miles, you go up basically over 3,000 feet. So it's like a crazy event. And this one was one of the few double vertical K's that are in the world. So you're actually going up six miles with six K avert. And I was like, all right, this sounds like a fun experiment, and turns out like climbing, I was pretty good. I got I got to the top in third, and then descending totally blew up and got sixth overall. But the reason I bring up that first race is like there's not Americans showing up to these like European races, except like UTMB, these really big ones, and I show up without a shirt on because again, I'm still in my minimal phase, you know. Yeah, and so they all just gave me a super hard time. Like here's his American, they even gave me a massive bottle of wine, just yeah, and I'd play six, like I shouldn't have gotten a uh a reward, yeah. But they're all just like, Bring up the American, man, we got a ball for you. Like, thanks for coming out. Like, I definitely provided some entertainment, like the American that blew up on the downhill. So then, yeah, fast forward, meet my wife. I was really inspired by that race was in the Pyrenees. I'm like, man, European races are just beautiful. So I get her to especially like side tangent yet.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Like, that's why I love trail running, is because you get to be so intimately in nature, yeah. Like you can get to places that you can't with a mountain bike as much, and you get to enjoy it. So, like, if you're running 70 miles a week in the Wasatch front, you probably know every trail, like the back of your hand, and know every view. It's still beautiful, but to be able to like, oh, we're in the Alps now and I haven't seen any of this.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

Unreal. Sorry.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

Back to the no, it's all it's all you know, novel, it's new, and and that's why I like going to these races that are just kind of like you know, amazing scenery. That's kind of one of my that's become now that I'm getting older, I'm like, okay, I don't know how much longer I'm gonna race. One of my big criteria now is like scenery, and like if I can, different culture, different area. That's even expanding how amazing that's gonna be of a new experience, a life experience. So, yeah, I was really enamored with European races. I go back, we go to this really amazing um another one in the Alps. And where was this one uh in the Alps? It's like near Nice, okay, France. So um Côte d'Azur is what it's called. It's like kind of up in the mountains from Nice. These crazy switchback roads to get up there, and yeah, again, I didn't know what to expect. Definitely the the only American there, and um, yeah, a lot of vertical, it was like a 60k. And yeah, uh before I know it, I I'm finishing. I didn't really see anyone most of the race. It wasn't it wasn't like the biggest race. Um, but like there's an announcer at the finish, you know, you got the tape, like they go all out of there, and yeah, American from the United States, and like and then I come through and yeah, break the tape. And then I think, yeah, again, that experience of like, okay, like this is building confidence. Like, I went from terrible race, first race, to like finally building out this like resume of you know, podiums, and this is my first win. And then it was that same year that that I went back to Wasatch and won in 2018, and I'm like, okay, all right, like I think we're starting to understand this thing a little bit more. And then in 2018, people were approaching me. That's when I was like, okay, maybe I make this my my my living. Um, it was just my wife at the time before kids, and we had really cheap rent. So I'm like, if there's ever a time, no, let's like lower responsibility, now's the time. Um, so yeah, I just made the leap and uh sure I've had to pick up little side stuff along the way, but now it's been for the last five, six years, it's like my full-time thing. So um I I don't know how much just cut me off here, but um the story of how I became kind of like a full-time coach. I was on my own and it was great.

SPEAKER_02 29:46

Where I was gonna go next. So beat me to the punch.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Oh, sweet, yeah. Um there's this company called Uphill Athlete, and they had released this book, Training for the Uphill Athlete, and that was like kind of the modern Bible of Ultra Running. And I really enjoyed that book, and I found out that the authors were coming to Patagonia um to do a book signing. So I showed up and I'm like, this is Patagonia the store. Patagonia Okay, for some reason my brain went pattern. It was like, so you get on a plane. No, no, yeah, that would have been cool. Yeah, just the Patagonia the store, the the ripoff Patagonia. Um, yeah, so I went to Patagonia and had an opportunity to get my books signed, kind of made made, you know, interactions with with the the authors there. And I was like, you know what, I might as well shoot my shot. I emailed them. I'm like, you guys have room for more coaches? And they're like, yeah, currently we're we're full. Um, but really appreciate you reaching out, super nice people. And um six months, seven, eight months go by, COVID hit, and they're like, hey, about that job, we kind of need you right now. So COVID surprisingly, there was a huge uptick in people wanting to train for ultra running. So I left my kind of own private gig and and got on with them. So um they coach mountaineers, schemo athletes, climbers. We're now like 20 coaches coaching different disciplines, and it just has been an awesome gig. Like they don't micromanage, I basically they're like, hey, here's someone who would be a good fit for you. They send them my way. We use this

Joining Uphill Athlete Through COVID

SPEAKER_00 31:27

app training peaks, we we coach through the app, and then nutrition stayed my own business. So nutrition rundown is my own gig, and it's pretty convenient because I'm helping people fuel for ultras, work on their daily diet, and a lot of the coaches will just be like, Hey, we need someone that needs help in nutrition, and they'll get get me going with them, or people that I'm coaching will be like, Hey, maybe nutrition could be helpful for you too, and they get that additional support. So they go really hand in hand, and I'm just super grateful for for for that path. But like, if you would have asked me as a kid if this is how I would have ended up, I like no idea. No idea. It's insane because like like you said, I I was I wasn't anything special. I didn't have I mean I've learned that I'm I'm much better at individual sports, like I was a decent squash player, and like I don't know, team team. I think I was just a little bit too timid. I wasn't able to build that confidence, I didn't care enough about those things. Um, yeah, never ran cross country or track. But and even still today, like let's let's give context here. How like you know, I've won some races, but like in the context of all of Ultra Running, um, I'm not winning these like marquee events, right? So there's there's a few hundreds in the world that are like every single pro runner will go to. Yeah, I'm not winning those. So like I'm still uh I just I hope I hope the audience understands. I'm not I I am winning some races, but we're not talking like you know, these huge, massive where everyone comes out because it is a full-time gig now. Totally. Um five, six years ago it was not. You could not make a living as an ultra runner, but now you can't.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

You can be thank you, COVID, for bringing everybody into it, and like all of these raises show up, and all of this money is going to it now. So it's it's fun to see how something that you join, I mean, like thinking about when you started like 10, 12 years ago of being like, oh, we're gonna go trail run, like that wasn't a thing. Like people would go hike and people would run, but be like, oh, we're just okay, like it existed, but it wasn't huge. And then now, I mean, everybody I feel like they trail run. If you go on any trail, you're gonna run into like 20 trail runners, more sometimes more trailrunners than hikers and bikers. And it's become like, I mean, it's hike hallmarked as like one of like the core Utah hobbies that everybody does, but it wasn't always like that. No, and so but it's interesting because like I'm curious about like the clientele because is it mostly people who are like, I want like almost like a couch to ultra? Is it people who have been doing ultras that are like, I can't get past this point, I need help getting there, or like a hodgepodge of each, or what kind of people are usually the people that are reaching out to Jesse Bridge for help?

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Yeah, it's it's kind of a mix of everything. Um surprisingly, about 50%, maybe a little bit more of my roster right now is European. Oh, really? So it's it's it's big in Europe. Um, the big Super Bowl of 100 mile distance is called UTMB. It's around Mont Blanc in France, and so it makes sense that a lot of Europeans are interested in getting into that race. Um, and so we're getting some people who drink. So use my ignorance. Do you have to qualify to get into that to begin with? You do before you didn't really have to do much, but because of the popularity now, there is so UTMB is now owned by Iron Man. And so now they own a bunch of different races that you have to do to qualify for the big the big thing. Um, there's a lot of controversy right now on how people feel because again, we're we went from these really grassroots events of just like local and yeah, speaking about like that time I won in France, like that was the biggest finish I have seen. Like they had microphones, and there's a ton of people cheering you on at the finish. You know, Utah, like finishing the Wasatch 100, it was like a couple members of my family, and like the the race director was just like half asleep, just like ice you did it. There's just there's nothing the you see you see Wasatch 100, but like there's no official finish line, you just cross into the grass, and like that honestly, I I like that vibe too, yeah. But then there's this other side of the sport now that is like UTMB, where there's 2,500 people at the start from all over the world, and there's this huge presentation, and you know, people in Shamini probably kind of hate it now because it's just people from all over the place, so yeah, all that is happening, and so UTMB is getting a lot of attention. How do we qualify? So, people wanting just to get into that and do those races to get enough points for the lottery to get in, a lot of people doing that. Um, some people who just want to kind of like in their 50s, still trying to race, still trying to hang on to some fitness, and then there's also like the elite side, so like Evoke where I work now, so Uphill Athlete actually became Evoke Endurance. There was a split-off, long story short. Um, so Evoke Endurance, we take on quite a few elite athletes. Um, so just last year, the female and male winner of that big race UTMB were coached by us. Oh no way. So that's what caused us all uh the our next kind of explosion of needing to hire more people, and so that brought on this interest of elite um elite runners. So we take on some people that are like really high level. The thing that's tricky though is like, you know, you still you have to be that 0.5% to make a good living. So people who are even really high-level pros still have a hard time paying for coaching, yeah. Which is so crazy to me. Like you still can be so incredibly good and just be getting free stuff and not getting paid to run that they're like, man, I want, I want you guys to coach me, but we just don't, we can't can't make it work. And so sometimes we'll do like little sponsorships for for high-level runners um so that we can we can support them in their in their training.

SPEAKER_02 37:27

Yeah, I mean, a lot of people, I mean, especially when I was growing up, like skiing, I'd be like, I want to be a pro skier so I can be rich and famous. And then it's like, I mean, 20 years later, I mean, there's some people like, I mean, even just episodes recently,

UTMB Boom And Ultrarunning Economics

SPEAKER_02 37:39

it's like I've had your brother Thane, who's I mean, amazing skier, um, but like every skier, like, I mean, injuries and just time and other priorities kind of get in the way and they like transition to something else. And then it's like then I have Tom Wallace who is announcing the Olympics and is like uh producing a North Face film. So it's like it's it's interesting to see kind of like where that gap breaks off. And it usually has nothing to do with like your own like uh um uh like skill or capabilities, but really like just kind of the way that you position and do things, or even like Julian Carr who I had a um a long time ago, he kind of saw writing on the wall of like traveling the world skiing, but he's like, I'm like there's gonna be an end and I need to do something. And then he started, I mean, all the like businesses like discrete and now um Ceric Series and like all the Bronco stuff that he does, and so it's so it's cool to see how you were one of those people who's been able to be like, I love trail running, I'm good at trail running, I don't want to have to like make this fit around my life, and especially to think about I mean the training, like even if you're running 10 miles a week in a trail, let's say you're using easy numbers, which are probably slow for you, let's say you're doing a 10-minute mile, that's two hours when you travel in. Think about, I mean, prep, drive, well, more than that, prep, driving in, getting done, like to do that on top of a work day, on top of, I mean, thankfully you were doing it before like kids and a lot of those responsibilities came in. But to think of like the next level of athletes where it's like, oh, I'm a lead, like I want to win UTMB, yeah, but I still have to go show up to work, whatever that could be. Yeah, and I can't do that, is like insane.

SPEAKER_00 39:14

It is insane, and and it's tricky because endurance athletics is really a time commitment, like they're they're time sports, you know, skiing, like, and there is innate talent in endurance athletics, yeah, but it really a lot of it is like who trains the most. Those are typically the people winning, and so myself and a lot of people who who have to work get to work. I love my job, but that's what's kind of nice about my job in that sense, too, though, is like racing helps my resume, so it gives me more justification to be doing it, you know. Like I still want to build out a resume that I I'm I'm practicing what I preach, I'm working on ideas.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

You're like, I know what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Yeah, trying. Um, but yeah, like the people who are full-time, they simply have more time. And so that gap between full-time pros and those who are like getting free stuff, it's it's a pretty big gap in a way. But there are some people who make it work, like there's some people who still can they still are getting paid as a pro and working a day job. Like, there's there's someone in Salt Lake right now who is uh she's doing her residency as a doctor, and she's sponsored by Nike, and she's like not just good, she's like one of the best. And I'm like, and her husband also runs for Nike, and they've got two little kids. I'm like, the math just doesn't add up here. Like, I'm sure there's gotta be daycare or something, something going on where they have the time to do that, but uh it's incredible, and like yes, it just it's it's it's insane how much time it takes. And so now that I have a family, I have kids, like it's it is tricky to fit it all in. But funny enough, I'm way more I'm way more dialed in my training because I have to optimize each day. Yeah, and like some days, of course, are just easy runs, but I have to be way more strategic. Like I'm actually having to start to coach myself, even still, it's hard to give myself enough time and energy to do that because I'm doing that for everyone else, but I'm trying to dedicate more time to like, okay, man, you've got an hour and a half. How are you gonna use it? Where are you gonna go? And the last few years have just been doing really close-by races for convenience where I wake up in my own bed. Yeah, I only have my wife take care of the kids for you know the first half of the day before their nap, and then I'm home. And that feels a little less selfish, but it is a battle.

SPEAKER_02 41:40

Like, is this because it because it's hard to like it's one thing if you're like working and she's supporting you, like, hey, I'm gonna go run a race, like see ya. But it's like this is for work just as much as it is for pleasure, and I have to do this, but it's also like uh just as fulfilling for me as it is for that. So I'm glad you have a good team that's there to help and support.

SPEAKER_00 42:03

Yeah, no, my wife's been in insanely supportive, and it's kind of a nice setup because she's a teacher, and because I work remote, I get to be with the kids, and like I've got a pretty we've been pretty good about like okay, we're gonna make it without daycare all the way up until they're in kindergarten. And then I we've been able to make it work. So I've kind of been right like at home with them, and then I'll just sneak out in the morning, or when my wife

Family Life Aging And Mental White Space

SPEAKER_00 42:28

gets home. So we've made it work, but you know, it's it's tricky. I'm 36, you know, like people in ultra running, like technically this is like right around that line of you know, peaking, potentially starting to go down, and it's so I keep talking to people about this lately because it's insane to think, and even in the World Cup, you know, you're hearing these comments like, Oh, he's 38 years old, cannot believe he's still at this level, and it's like 38 in the gram scheme of things is not even half of your life. Yeah, so what? At the time you're 40, you just have to like try to maintain fitness and just accept that like your physiology is just against you, like it's kind of sad, man. Oh like I'm starting to like have those conversations with myself now that like this is the reality. Like, you you like I'm gonna try to take care of my body for the rest of my life, but in terms of like physiological peak, you know, late 30s, it's kind of it, man.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

So I feel like the last year for me has been like the most the first time I've ever like been like, oh, like it's not the same as it was. Like it's a lot of the output isn't the same, but like recovery is a lot different. Um, like nutrition is so much more important, like getting good sleep is so much more important than it's ever been, and I can actually feel a difference. Whereas before it's like, yeah, it's fine, I can show up, I can do it, I can muscle my way through, yeah, like I can make it happen. Where now it's like, oh, this hurt this hurts a little bit more than we thought. And like there's also like all the things of like, I mean, I feel like everybody I know is either on or thinking about getting on testosterone. Yeah. And then there's people who are like religiously accepting of like peptides and everything. So I'm like, are we there yet? Maybe not, but like, no, thank you for me, but good for others who like want to and can. And and I mean, if it works, it works. But yeah, it is it is that frustrating time of life where you're like, I'm not young, but I'm not old, but I'm here, and I kind of want to make the most of it, even if it means it's like kind of like a victory lap, so to speak.

SPEAKER_00 44:28

Totally. It takes it takes more, and and that's okay. That's just life. And I'm sure people listening, 50 year olds, will be like, you don't even you can't be talking yet. It's like I'm sure, I'm sure it gets tougher, you know. And like I luckily still feel pretty good. I I don't feel too many things that recovery sure takes a little bit longer. Um, but luckily I'm not like quite falling apart yet, but I don't really want to be that person who who is falling apart and still trying to hold on to it. So I've already accepted that this maybe this year, next year is probably it for me, and I can move on into like fully just being a coach and nutritionist. And I put my time in as as an athlete and just being like, okay, like now it's it's time to move on because like as my kids get older too, I don't want to be I don't want to be missing games for a race or something. I want to be present as much as I can be. Um it's also that hard thing though, like you kind of want to see your kids you like you want your kids to see. See you doing something hard and having something for you too. And like and not have it just be like memories. Right. Yeah. So it's like they're four and five now. And I'm like, man, is it worth holding on so they can see me like finish a race and have that be a memory for them? That like back then dad was cool. There was a point where dad was actually cool, you know? But like it's it's so I go back and forth, and my wife is again so supportive. She's like, just go until you stop like wanting to do it. Like, I still love it, unfortunately. And racing is still really cool, and I'm in a position where it doesn't take time away from my family necessarily, and and it is good to have that that alone time to process life. That's another reason I love it, is it's kind of a meditative thing for me each day to just kind of get some air and just do something for me.

SPEAKER_02 46:16

Well, everybody, if people like I'm someone who operates very well when I have blank space. Like if I'm go, go, go all the time, like I don't recharge and like I need like my brain's creative enough, like I need it just to kind of like talk to itself.

SPEAKER_01 46:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

And in if I don't, it'll force me to. Like if I don't have enough time, I'll usually like insomnia will kick in and I'll like my brain will just be up to like three. But it's ironically just like I'll be taking notes the whole time because I'll be like, oh yeah, that is a good idea, right? Oh, I should do this, or yeah, I do need to reach out to this person, or I've never thought about that before. Like, and then I'll be like, okay, cool. Like, sorry, brain, like, thanks for like forcing me. Yeah, but that's one thing I always love about writing, I mean, especially trail more than like road, is it's just you and like your brain. And some people like can't do that, which is like a sign that they should do that.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 47:02

But it's it's something that people need a lot more of that. Just let your brain free and just let it have something to chew on. And 100%. There's usually something that you're like, like it's people I talk to, like, oh, I could never have that much like of time with my thoughts. I'm like, sure about that. I think I think you could use that.

SPEAKER_00 47:18

Yeah, we get so used to the chaos that it's like uncomfortable to not be quiet with yourself. Like, I think a lot of us are like, it's good. Like, there's I I think in modern times, like there is this idea that like it's it's slacking off to be by yourself and just do nothing for a little while, or even if you're not running, like, what if you just meditate or you know, go to the park by yourself? And it's like, I think that's pretty productive. Like, you're not only helping yourself, you're helping your relationships. Like, in a way, it's it is it's selfish, but in the end of the day, it's it's helpful to your people around you. So, yeah, I think it's important to have that space, whatever it might be in your day, to just have that to rely on, to have.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

There's a term I'm trying to look up, yeah. There it is. It's so there's a Japanese term called ma MA, well, it's not MA for them, anyway, but it's kind of built into a lot of like Japanese architecture, Japanese art, and it's kind of the easiest comparison is like white space. So, like a Japanese home will have the home, but then they'll also have a garden. And so, just as much as like having space where it's all happening is like also have that white space to to sit, to reflect, to I mean, let your brain think to itself. And that's something I always try to do. I'm not as good about it right now, is to have like that ma, that white space. And again, like we're in this culture now where I mean we're drinking coffee, we're having energy drinks, we're on Adderall because we need to just feel like we have to be on all the time, maximize everything that we do, or else we're failures. And in reality, it's like actually the opposite will make help you do a lot better than you think. Couldn't agree more.

SPEAKER_01 48:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

So if you could only do five races either again or ones that you well, no, let's do ones you have done. Okay. Like, what are your favorite five races you've done if you can only do five of those again?

SPEAKER_00 49:10

It's a good question. It's a good question. So speed go have a very love-hate relationship with it.

SPEAKER_02 49:15

So that's have you done it again since then? I've done it five times now. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 49:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

So like that became my which I assume you got some like unfinished business taken care of.

SPEAKER_00 49:24

Yeah, I finally achieved what I wanted out of that, which it is debatably the most competitive 50k in the US. So it's like really stacked. It's hard. I would never win that race because I'm not a kind of have to be a 50k specialist, but like so first year I did it, I got like right under eight hours. And this last year I finally was able to achieve my goal of under six. Wow. But it's it, I just barely got I got 11th. I couldn't quite get that top 10. Yeah. Um, which for me, again, these are you know, these are really high-level guys. I'm like, okay, I can end on that. Like, I've done this race enough, I've learned a lot from this race, and just the fact it's like local and you know, snowbird, it just kind of nostalgic. And so I I've kind of gone back to that several times. So speed goat, I would highly suggest for people 50k. Um, funny enough, it is owned by UTMB now, so it's a UTMB qualifying race, so it brings even more talent, which is tough. Um, so it's just getting faster and faster. Wasatch 100, gotta put that on the list. Yeah, you know, it it it's so cool to see you link up from K'sville to uh midway. Yeah, that's the that's how you link at all these things.

SPEAKER_02 50:38

Because like one thing I love about running through the Wasatch front is like when you drive in,

Favorite Races Tips And Gear Picks

SPEAKER_02 50:43

let's let's say a drive first, because like when you drive around Salt Lake and like northern Utah, you're like, okay, I know how to get there, I-15, I get 215, I-80, blah, blah, blah. But then once you start like skiing, you like sit a mountaintop, you're like, oh, well, that's over there, that's just over there. Like you're sitting at the top of Brighton, like, oh, that's Park City, and that's Heber.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

Okay. But then you start running through them and everything feels a lot more connected. And like the thought of for someone who doesn't spend a lot of time on the trails, be like K'sville to Midway. I I can't even fathom that. But then once you do, you're like, oh, yeah, it's a it's all part of the same monster up front.

SPEAKER_00 51:13

Yeah, it's funny you say that. It took me a long time to even understand what is what, and trail running really helped me do that. Um, understand what's yeah, what peaks or what I feel like I have some running friends that are from other states, and they would be like, hey, let's go hit, you know, Pfeifferhorn. And I'm like, Oh, I haven't done that one yet.

SPEAKER_02 51:33

You know, like I've only done that twice now, and I'm just like, man, what is my well I'm the worst, like being like the if you were to look at like, you know, that view on Strava, it's like the heat map of like where you've run the most, and you're to show me if I were to show somebody like, I thought you were from here, I thought you liked I'm like, listen. Don't make it personal. I uh I spent a lot of time on BST and Parlies, and sometimes it's hard for me to break away. But yeah, I mean, I'm the same way where I feel like a lot of people are you kind of get in your like ruts and the things that you do, and especially if you're like training and trying to like have comps on things, it's sometimes better to have the same thing over and over again than kind of do like it's a means.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

Yeah, no, I'm the same, dude. I I only hit a few trails on weekdays and then weekends maybe I'll get up to the cottonwoods.

SPEAKER_02 52:12

But uh how many times have you done last I 100? Just twice. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

Yep, yeah. Uh 17 and 18. Um, I recently did a 50 miler that's new here called Rose Canyon. Okay, it's in the ochres. So you actually start in Harriman and hit the ochre mountains, which was an another thing for me. And again, I love my new perspective of like it's cool to repeat races, but let's let's do a race that forces you to go somewhere else. So I'm like, wow, ochres are right there. I've never been out to the ochres, and it turns out they're incredible. Yeah, like they're the views were insane, and I love that race because it is absolutely that grassroots low-key vibe. There were like 70 people at the start line, and it was just like having fun, just being out there. There wasn't any big thing going on. It's just like you finish, you know, there isn't some huge praise from first to the last person, it's just everybody's a finisher. Yeah, um, it was super hot. That was brutal, but yeah, Rose Canyon Ultras, I'd say that's number three. You know, this is a Salt Lake City podcast.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

So I'm hitting the hell of a load. So it's good to know that we have good races nearby.

SPEAKER_00 53:21

Yeah. Um, and then so I have done the 100k version of UTMB, which is um called CCC. So you do three-quarters of the loop around Mont Blanc. That's pretty incredible. I mean, breathtaking. The reason, I mean, there's a reason why everyone wants to do that, not just because of the competition, but holy cow, man. I mean, the Alps, like Wasatch is amazing, but I gotta say the Alps are the most beautiful thing I've seen.

SPEAKER_02 53:48

And it's like like the Wasatch Flynn Salt Lake is beautiful, but it's so fun to travel and see other mountains because like there's some that just like don't compare. Like I remember when I went to Banff, like, and just seeing like there's all of these and everything that goes straight up and there's glaciers everywhere, and it goes on forever of the Canadian Rockies. Yeah, and then you go to like the Pacific Northwest, like the North Cascades, and it's like every mountain is somehow completely different, and it's gore like, and so it's as much as I love and like I'm grateful to be here and like having all that perspective, it makes me appreciate this more. Yeah, but then there's places like the Alps where like this is so like unreal and like unique and different, and like where you're just I'm gonna imagine you're just like running and it's like we're just gonna the head is up, and hopefully I don't trip and die, but we're gonna enjoy all the views.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

Yeah, yeah. Glaciers everywhere, the peaks are just longer, like you said, just straight up climbs that go for miles and miles. So, yeah, Alps. Um, and then uh let's see, that's four. Uh there's been a lot of cool ones. I'd have to pick one from the Pacific Northwest as well when I was racing in Oregon. There's um the Nut 100k, uh, it's the Umqua Forest. It's super random and remote, but it was like the lushest forest I've ever seen. Um, waterfalls everywhere, 100k point to point. I mean, it couldn't get more like foresty and lush than that. So those are probably my top five picks, but it's really hard to choose. Like I've done, I've done, I've and I again there's there's merit in in repeating a race to see how you've progressed. I like doing that, but then it's cool experimenting with new races. I have a buddy who's actually debatably one of the I mean, he's definitely top five in Utah, and his policy is never repeat a race. He just does even if he wins, he'll just be like, okay, on to the next one, because there's just so much to see. Like now, ultra running, especially hundreds, you could probably do. I mean, there's gotta be at least 300, 400 now in the US alone. Like the amount of hundred milers now is is bonkers. So um a lot to choose from. Yeah, it's hard to go wrong.

SPEAKER_02 55:58

Yeah, um, and so if you were to give if someone were to bump in you in the grocery store and you're like, oh, I do nutrition and coaching for ultras, and you were to give them just like the five points or a couple points on like here's what everybody should know that most people don't. What like advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_00 56:14

Yeah, it's normal to hate gels, even the good ones. It takes time to have your body like them, not only your taste buds, but your stomach. You need to practice. You cannot just go into races and expect you to be fine taking in gels. You need to practice. It's called training the gut. There's these adaptations that happen when you're taking in carbs while you train that you just have to practice. So that's probably number one is you got to practice what you would want to do on race day over and over and over again on your long runs. Another one would be consistency. I mean, like, sure, you could run 60 miles a week, but if you're only doing that over three days, it's not as good as over five. Adaptations happen really well if you're consistent. So even if you can only do 30 minutes a day and you're doing that five days a week, that's better than little pushes, you know, a few days a week. So consistency is best for your physiology. Try to do as much as you can throughout the week. Um, in the daily diet, it is one you when when you really start training hard, calories become almost a chore. You have to eat a lot, and that's okay. It's good to have a foundation of really healthy foods. You absolutely cannot forget about those healthy foods, but sometimes to get all those calories in, it's okay to have some pasta.

SPEAKER_02 57:38

Just go grab the peanut butter and it sits done.

SPEAKER_00 57:41

Yeah, yeah, totally. No, there's this uh thing red's um relative energy deficiency that happens a lot in athletes where they just can't eat enough and they get stretch fractures and injuries. And so if you're getting hurt all the time, that's the first thing I'd want to look at is your intake. You know, let's track what you're eating. Um, fourth would be uh listen to your body. Like if if if you're pushing too hard and and you aren't seeing progress, uh believe it or not, a lot of times you probably need to go slower. That's like been the huge message in the running space right now. And it is a good message that like you cannot expect to push every single day. There's recovery days, there's workout days. Um delineate those two. Don't just go out and try to run hard every day. That's you're not gonna last. And yeah, fifth, it's it is a long-term game. Uh, do not expect to have insane improvements even over a year. Well, the first year you're gonna see pretty good exponential improvements, but expect there to be plateaus.

SPEAKER_02 58:44

Yeah, like you're gonna finish returns. Like, of course, when you first start, you're gonna get a lot better first, but then totally, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:51

So don't get discouraged. It happens. Like you're gonna you're gonna reach a point where you're like, what is going on? Like you're not getting injured, but like maybe you're not progressing. And sure, maybe having a coach looking at it would be helpful. Maybe you are doing something wrong, but just understand it's these changes take a lot of time. Like, expect you to be at your very best self after six to ten years of running. Like, it's it's one of those sports that you just need to. I mean, uh all sports, you know. You you cannot, I think you cannot be an expert at something unless you put in 10 plus years, so expect it to take some time. Cool.

SPEAKER_02 59:27

Um, and then any favorite brands for nutrition, shoes, gear, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:33

Yeah, um, so Teland, I think, is still my favorite option as just an easy powder you add into water. Um, La Sportiva was the the brand I um kind of grew up with and ran my first hundred in, but they were pretty bad. But now they've really revamped their product line, and I'd say the La Sportiva Perdigio Pro might be one of the best selling Ultra shoes right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:00

It's one of the shoes I feel like I've seen the most more recently. And then they also just put in a new store on Fit South at like post district. Yeah. So you can go check them out easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

Yep, yeah, yeah, they've got good stuff. Um, what was the other one? What's that? Yeah, any gear that you swear by. Yeah, um, also, lastly, and I there is a little um relationship there, but Terragnota for apparel, they are absolutely amazing. That's a kind of revolutionary idea of just not ripping people off. Crazy, crazy, right? So they charge like 28 bucks for shorts, and they're the highest quality shorts I've ever worn. Um, you could easily pay 80, 90 dollars now for running shorts, 100 plus even. Um, and I've had really nice shorts, and these ones are like my favorite, cool, and they happen to be super cheap. I like when those two things happen. It's amazing. So he's just a one guy uh brand, and he's like, I'm I'm I'm not gonna make this a corporate thing where there's you know, we have to charge so much for just the simple thing. So yeah, he does short shirts, vests. Um, and yeah, it's like I was buying him stuff, his stuff before he even like hooked me up. I'm like, this is a no-brainer, like this is so easy, and there's no there's no like contemplation in my head, this is this is a great product. So Terignota, uh, those would be my my top cool suggestions.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:30

So then who are some of the runners in Utah that you run with, follow that are crushing it?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:36

So believe it or not, I think right now Salt Lake has the highest concentration of pro ultra runners. So I would list, I'd have to list at least 20 on the male and female. It's wild, right? That's crazy. They say this is like the new mecca of trail running. The accessibility, like people are figuring it out.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:53

Because that's like if you were to live like anywhere else to get to a place where you can get vert, where you can like essentially train for a trail, like an ultra where you know what you're getting yourself into, and especially if you still have a full-time job and have to like put that into everything, like there's no like from my house, I can be in a place with no cell service in 15 minutes. And like just like to think geographically of anywhere else to have that option, no, it's insane.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:20

I we are so privileged, and people are getting it. So um, oh man, Calebolson won Western States last year, he lives here. Uh, Jimmy Elam, he's the guy who only does one race uh and and leaves it. Um, I have some really good friends here. I could go on and on. But yeah, on the women's side, Rachel Drake, amazing athlete. She's a physician with two kids, runs for Nike, just incredible. So, yeah, if you see people in white and orange running around the trails, they're probably Nike athletes. So there's a good amount of what Nike athletes here. Really good short distance guy, Christian Allen. Uh, insane. He also does marathons, he runs a 210 marathon and also does like very competitive short distance trail running. So he's insane. Yeah. So yeah, there's a lot of talent here, and it's kind of like, man, I there's no way I can keep up with all these people, but it's cool. Sounds like you still do. No, I mean it's it's it's getting insane, and the sport continues to grow, and it's it's it's like a overall a very positive thing, I think, to see things is growing the way they are.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:29

Like my girlfriend's doing the Wasat Trail series this year, and like I had no idea really about it, but it was fun. Like I did one race with her at Dimpledell because I've actually never even been to Dimpledell, which is wild, but like I haven't either. But it was fun to be like, oh, the first race is in Eagle Mountain, which sucked because it's so far away, and it was like starting at six, so you had to go through all the traffic. But to your point, like it's a good way. And I mean, it's in Deer Valley, it's in Solitude, it's Alta, it's not like Brighton. And so it's like a good way to be like, here's a way I'm gonna automate going on different trail runs and all the beautiful places everybody wants to. Yeah, and so it's fun to see like how many people show up for those now and just the community around it. It's it's fun, and like especially like I can't think of the race. You can you'll know it as I try to explain it, but like that's never like marketed, but it's just a guy that like tweets of like, hey, the race is happening, yeah, and it's like unguided. I think it's like a 200-mile race, and like you have to go get pages from the notebook. Oh, Barkley, yeah, yep. And like, so it's like those ones or like the backyard ultras where it's like, oh, we're just gonna go be a couple of crazy guys, we're just gonna go run around and see who can do it fastest and or for longest.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:30

And it's like I like that culture more than like, I mean, like the very corporate sponsored, branded, yeah, very commercial things. Like, there's a place for both of them, but it's a lot more fun when it's just dumbies doing cool stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:40

I agree. Yeah, that's a good bug.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:42

Well, Jesse, you want to end with the two questions I always ask everybody at the end of each episode. Number one, if you could have someone on the Small League City podcast and hear more about their story, what they're up to, who would you want to hear from?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:56

Funny enough, I think I'd say Rachel Drake, the the yeah, the local who's a physician and pro Ultrarunner. I just want to know how that happens.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:04

I my brain's breaking thinking about that. Because like I had a friend that when I lived in Seattle and was doing investment banking, like working so anywhere from 70 to 90 hours a week. I had a friend who was working with at that time who also did an Iron Man. And I was like, kept like trying to do the math of like, how are you doing this? Yeah. But then it's the same thing with her being like, oh, so you're a physician, kids, yeah, ultra, like that's a lot of time in bed. But I imagine ultra runners who are always busy are really good at time management. Or else.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:34

Yeah, no, it's gotta be like you've gotta be sleep deprived or something. Um, second person, if you want to keep it in the bloodline still and keep someone in the family. Uh Richard Markosian is the owner of Utah Stories. I think you guys would have a great conversation. Um, he he kind of yeah, talks about um what's going on as well in Salt Lake. And then yeah, those are the two I think would be cool to have on. No, great people.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:01

And then lastly, if people want to see more information about your nutrition, about your coaching, follow you for more information, what's the best place to find info?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:08

Yeah, you could just hit me up on Instagram, jessejse.t.rich, uh, or my website, nutritionrundown.com.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:17

Cool. Yeah. Jesse, keep crushing it, keep helping other people crush it. I I like to think I could be like, oh, cool, I'm gonna go do a 50k or 100k or a hundred miler just sign up, man. I know you can do it. I know I can, but we'll do it. But one day I might need your help, but we'll get there. Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:34

Dude, don't man.