S2, E16: Celeste Edmunds - From Trauma To Legacy At Christmas Box International

A lot of people talk about “networking,” but we wanted to get honest about what actually holds a life together when things get hard: reciprocity, loyalty, and the people who show up when you have nothing to offer. We start with the awkward truth about perks and connections, then pull the thread into something bigger, how success can reveal who is really in your corner and why one-way relationships drain you fast.

Then Celeste joins us and tells the kind of story you do not forget. She grew up moving every six months with her belongings in a garbage bag, surviving foster care, abuse, and the pressure of becoming a parent to her sibling as a child. She walks us through the turning points that changed her trajectory, the rare adults who offered steadiness, the power of chosen family, and what it means to find gratitude without pretending the pain did not happen. Along the way, we talk trauma comparison, resilience, triggers, and why celebrating small wins is not cheesy, it is survival.

Celeste also breaks down the mission and impact of Christmas Box International and the Christmas Box House shelters, including the reality of child welfare in Utah, the growing challenges of placements, and why keeping siblings together is so critical. If you care about foster care, child advocacy, trauma recovery, or how a Utah nonprofit can change lives at scale, this conversation is for you. Listen through to the end for clear ways to help, from wish lists and Amazon shipping to volunteering and sharing resources, then subscribe, share this with one person, and leave a review so more people can find it.

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Transcript

Perks, Reciprocity, And Real Friends

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Yeah, I was invited to go from my friend who runs like a NHL Instagram, TikTok account that one of his sponsors, Tricordia Insurance, has a suite there. He's like, I like post like it's fun when like the perks happen. And I hate to be the person to be like, oh, it's like, hey, does anybody have tickets? And someone's like, hey, yep. That's like perfect.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

It's okay because everybody, everybody runs their world a little bit on who you know, what they know, what they and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. We're all a little opportunistic to a point, but there should still be a return value.

SPEAKER_01 0:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

It's when it's always the one way that I have a hard time with. If you're just constantly calling me for stuff, but you're never like putting your hand out, I I have to kind of question your motive.

SPEAKER_00 0:48

Oh, same.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

Like do you even like me?

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Yeah. Like you just keep take, take, take. Yeah. I mean, it's like I mean, they can go so many different levels, especially like even just friends.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Where it's like, I'm always the one reaching out to you. I'm gonna not reach out to you. We'll see if you reach out to me. And the next thing you know, you're like, oh well, yep. I know someone who wasn't a friend anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Like, are we friends? Or am I just somebody that you feel obligated to know?

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Oof.

SPEAKER_02 1:09

And the more your influence grows, I think, I think the more that happens. All of a sudden you're hearing from people that you're like, you know, you didn't really want a lot to do with me before I did XYZ.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Not cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_02 1:23

It's just not like I wouldn't do that to you.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

Yeah. And it's like fun to see, like, there's people, like one of my friends' name is Taylor Brody. He, when I first like announced the podcast, I didn't even like release an episode yet. He's like, Oh, I get what you're doing. This is really cool. Let me know how I can help you. And he's made a lot of really great introductions. He's helped support me in so many different ways.

SPEAKER_01 1:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 1:41

And like anytime, like one of my partners that I work with is Live Nation. And so a lot of I mean, promoting because I love going to concerts, I love live music, and so it was nice to be like, oh, like I'll help you promote, I get tickets. Yep. I rub your back, you rub by exactly. And so I'd always have two tickets and I'd be like, hey man, you want to go to a concert? Like, yeah. Yeah. And then there's like other friends who I mean, I wouldn't it I wouldn't say that they were like naysayers from the beginning or like, but they definitely like weren't rooting for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

And then all of a sudden they're like good things are happening.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

It's like, hey, we'd love to blue blue. I'm like, I'm sure you would.

SPEAKER_02 2:15

I'm sure you would, buddy.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Thanks. You learn a lot about people.

SPEAKER_02 2:18

You do. And I think the um, like my definition of success is um you also bringing people up.

SPEAKER_01 2:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Like how it's not as fun to have success, in my opinion, with in well, in my world, without br helping to bring other people up in their success. Yeah. I never that's a lonely road that it I don't know, just doesn't really sit well with me, at least in in my values. You have to that's why I love to mentor like young women because of my time in corporate world. It was so hard to be in a world full of men and not know how to gain a proper um a proper entrance in without being accused of something to get yourself there. You know what I mean? And so helping women kind of so I developed this program called your seat at the board in the boardroom. And that was literal and figuratively speaking.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Like what does that what does that look like? Because it also just can't be a man's responsibility to make sure you're seen. Yeah. You have your part too. And women are the worst with each other because there's only so many, so many levels and so many positions, so they're really cutthroat with each other. And I'm like, y'all are kind of like at each other's throat. And we need to recognize that. We need to talk about that too.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

Yeah, there's room at the top for everybody, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

And and you building you up helps other women know that they can grow too. And so how are we, how are we all bringing each other up? And the moment those people, those women didn't show up by helping bring someone else up, I knew. Like you don't you don't fit into the program because you're self-serving. Yeah, and you're the reason we're even having this conversation. So I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

It's a well, like in all of this. Let's see, how many episodes have I recorded? About 120.

SPEAKER_02 4:08

A lot.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

And in like well, in all of these, I've never had someone do it all on their own. Like it's never just been one person versus everybody. It's always been some sort of support, some sort of network, some sort of camaraderie. And so to think that like it's not gonna, you're not gonna be able to get there without raising people up. If you're trying to keep up with everything life throws at you, work, workouts, long runs, rounds of golf, whatever it might be, having your nutrition dialed matters. That's why I use gnarly nutrition from supporting my recovery to fueling performance and helping me feel good no matter what I've got going on. And even better, they're located right here in Utah. Whether you're in the gym, on the trail, or just trying to get through your day, gnarly has you covered. Check them out through the link in the description to see why they've become part of my daily routine without support having supporting other people and being supported by other people is just silly.

SPEAKER_02 5:00

Your tribe matters. Totally. Your tribe totally matters, and that means that's family, friends, I mean, colleagues. It's the whole thing. Your tribe is gonna make or break you. It's kind of like when you're in school and your mom's like, hang out with the right people. Mom, you don't know. Come on, you're so cool though. And she's like, Ah, but they might not be the best for you. And you know, you don't know at the time. It's like when my son was sloughing school his senior year, and he'd win his whole life so structured, which is probably why he rebelled. Like the moment we put him in public school and he he got to grow his hair out, yeah, and he didn't have to wear a uniform, all hell broke where Lucy was like, Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Freedom.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Okay, so those bros are cool, but I don't know if they're really you only have six weeks left, buddy. Get to the finish line, get to the finish line. Uh yeah. So your your tribe still matters even in your adulthood, which I think is a weird lesson.

SPEAKER_00 5:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

Because in school you're so like sunk into what you're doing at the time. Yeah. And everybody feels so big. Yeah. Then you graduate, you move on, you're kind of like, oh, that's so funny. I thought that was such a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Well, it's like life has all of those sort of like moments where you're so into it, you feel like that world matters and everything. And then you leave it and you look back, you're like, oh, like I mean, it happens in I mean, all facets of school from elementary, middle school, high school, college, I mean, even jobs at companies, friend groups, cities, like neighborhoods, everything. It all seems like it matters. And then once you get out of it, you're like, oh, that was so myopic of me to think that this is the entire world. It's a great word. It's just like a microcosm.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Yeah, it was like this big. But I remember as a mom feeling at the time like they don't have any context to know that within two weeks this won't be relevant. So my brain would go to be relevant and make it a big deal because that's a big deal for them. Like, oh my gosh, but don't jump in the well too hard where you can't like offer a lifeline.

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

So that was a hard, like that was a hard mom thing. Like this breakup is such a big deal. And I know your heart is broken, but in my brain, I'm like, logic says in two weeks, this person's likely not gonna matter. Or this person that said something about you is likely not gonna matter. That's gonna be irrelevant news. But man, at the time of the heartbreak, it's so big for them.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Like as a parent, you're like, oh yeah, I remember this was a big deal. And they have social media. You had none of that as a child. Nothing was so big when you were a kid because it just didn't travel anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Yeah. Only like your inner circle knew. You could go to school, leave school there, and then banana comes over now.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Yeah.

unknown 7:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Well, Celeste, I'm excited for a lot of reasons. Um, number one, talk to you about all the work that you're doing at Christmas Box International, but then also I know that your story itself is, I mean, unique to say the least. And so excited to not only hear about all the work you do, but about you yourself. Um, and it was interesting, like when I was looking at your background, it's like you look at your career and it's like this like bookends of Christmas Box International, and then you have this like schmorgish board of experience, and then comes back to that. So, I mean, I mean, set the stage for me of I mean, kind of all of this. I mean, what was I mean growing up like? I mean, how did Utah play a role in that? And we can start there.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

Okay. So the growing up part was um, gosh, you know, it's why my book's called Garbage Bag Girl, because I moved every six months with my stuff in a garbage sack. And so um it was about two, two moves a year. Every six months, I probably lived in, I don't know, 31, 32 cities by the time I was 16. It definitely on the positive side has made me have a huge appreciation for world travel and also for um, especially living in Utah, it's it's bland in comparison to what I've seen, not just from culture and types of people, but just geographically. Um I'm I'm happy I'm a mountain girl because it sustains me and my kids are here.

Mentorship, Women, And Bringing Others Up

SPEAKER_02 8:55

But compared to what I've seen around the world, um, it kind of has that bland approach. So I don't get scared like when people are like, you're not really gonna go downtown alone, or you're not really gonna go park over there. And I'm like, You're kidding, right? Like, this is so not to take away from being responsible with your choices, but there's still kind of this, man. I watched someone stabbed in the subway in New York in the 80s, and I think about just my own sexual and physical abuse, and I'm like, this is just so minor. And most of the time when I walk down the street and anybody looks lonely, sad, homeless, or just out of sorts, the moment I just smile, I don't really even have to say a lot, but I just acknowledge them as a human being. There's no drama. It's when I try to get sassy, or you know, you don't have to look at me that way, or I'm I'm this or that, that that that all starts. So my childhood definitely later on taught me the value of people to the most part are just people. And um, I had a a really cool time of working for um Robert Redford for several years, and um, and then seeing this contrast in kind of this celebrity world of oh, now they have everything they want at fingertips. And I had nothing and and groveled, but there was still the same relevance. They were still human beings that just didn't really want to be approached all the time and just wanted their own sense of self, but they did it because it was part of the gig and good for them. So that's probably my biggest takeaway from kind of my hard childhood of moving every six months and in and out of foster care, in and out of drug rehabilitation centers with my parents. Um my biggest role was, of course, taking care of my sister. I became a mom by the age of five. And then by the time I was seven, because my parents were addicts, um, you know, I was pushing the stool up to the stove and making mac and cheese. If we had hot dogs, that was a bonus to put in it. That was like, oh my gosh, we have hot dogs. So I learned to cook. I I mean, I think about the value that now my grandson is seven, and I think I I can't even imagine letting him do those things because he doesn't have to more than anything. Um, but learning to cook, doing your homework after walking her to school, going to school, getting lunch, and then thinking ahead, wow, we might not have anything for her to eat tonight, so I better save some of my lunch. Now we have free school and breakfast, you know, lunch programs and all the things, but in the 80s we didn't. Um, that wasn't a thing yet. And so um just really learning to balance out how much food we had and when our next resource was coming in. And, you know, unfortunately, there were the hard times of greeting men at the door who were coming to give

Sponsor Break And Daily Fuel

SPEAKER_02 11:46

my mom payment, and she was passed out at the time I thought she was sleeping. Now we're all aware that was a hangover. But um, so offering payment and any service that I could, you know, provide at the young age of seven to not disrupt my mom. So I learned a lot of hard things in terms of um, again, just sexual abuse and the the things that come with not knowing better, but in my role through all that, I had a purpose. And my purpose was to protect my sister from all those things happening to her. So the book cover is a picture of me age seven, um, garbage bag girl, and and what you don't see is me holding my little sister's hand, who was five at the time. And it was about that. It was my purpose was just solely about protecting her. And man, if she doesn't have to, if I can fight, and I became just an excellent at the hook, the two, I think it's called in boxing, the two was good for me. Um, I had a strong two, and I could really kick someone's ass, to be quite frank, to protect her. Um, but during that process, the system, the state identified me as trouble for her. And um, you know, a girl that got in trouble all the time and she was maybe too much for my sister and high energy. So we were separated because they didn't know the backstory.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

Um and all they saw was this girl that would fight me all the time.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

She was fighting and she was promiscuous and she was, but there was a purpose for all that, and it protected my sister. And um, you know, that's just what you don't know with communication of uh with kids, lack of communication with kiddos, um, is the story you're putting together. Plus, I was moving every six months, so they only knew what they saw for six months, yeah, which was Celeste is trouble. Get her out of the equation. Um, so they did. I lost my brother and sister um when I was eight. They were adopted into a separate family, and then I went into back into the foster care system and then was adopted into an abusive family. The mom wanted

Meeting Celeste And Setting The Stage

SPEAKER_02 13:50

me as a Christmas gift for my younger sister at the time, two years younger than me, because she had six miscarriages that could no longer have children. So I was basically assigned to her um to play, go to sleep. Everything she wanted to do, Celeste had to do, um, or I was punished for it. Um, it was, you know, the closest thing to when I watched like a Cinderella story, I'm like, oh my gosh, that was my life. That's so crazy looking back. And it was just about being there for her and told all the time how unwanted I was, and I was never really a part of the family. So I ended up that father passed away, and I ended up running away at 15. And um that was a hard time. I dropped out of school. I probably drank the equivalent of about seven glasses of vodka a night. Um, passed out at houses I had no business being in. And um then one of my six-month stints, I landed at a home with a woman in Lake Havasu, Arizona, who was a single mom, wealthy, um, and showed me this whole new world of what do resources look like? It was more about that. It was like a every day I saw this woman that so I'd never seen a woman in really this empowering mode. I'd only seen helpless women on couches and using their bodies to get what they needed. I lived in that world. This world was she exercised every day, she ate really well, she she showed up every day, she got up at a certain time, and I remember thinking, wow, her name was Irene. I'm gonna be like Irene when I grew up. It was a first time, and I was 16, and she put me back in school and said, There's just a better way and a better life for you. And then after about six months, for whatever reason, six months was like my expiration date my whole life. She sadly said, My, you know, my daughter, also your age, that's how I met her, has bipolar. And we're sorry, but we're gonna have to take you back to Utah. Like, it's okay. Six months kind of my gig. She puts me in her and her boyfriend's Winnebago. So I'd never seen one of those. I didn't know you could like really live in them. Drives me all the way back on a road trip, all the way to Salt Lake City, Utah.

Garbage Bag Girl And Surviving Childhood

SPEAKER_02 16:10

Drops me off in front of the woman I call mom. It's who my book's dedicated to. I always say she didn't birth me, but she gave me life. And her name's Carly. And um, Irene hands me an envelope with $753, which was so ironic. Like that cash amount, it's so random. Yeah. Like I just see the last two. One, two, three, like $753. And but hands it to me and looks into my eyes and says, You have remarkable potential and you don't see it today, but you will do amazing things with your life. And I'm sorry that you couldn't stay with us, but I believe in you and I love you. And I was like, Okay. Um, and then I went into the home that the joke was I came for Thanksgiving dinner and never left. Because every two we or about two weeks before Thanksgiving was when I was dropped off. So every Thanksgiving, I was like, hey, this is so great. It's like my anniversary. And on the ninth Thanksgiving, I said, Can I toast the family? I've never been in a family this long. This is awesome. And my mom literally jumps out of her seat and says, Let's adopt you. And I was like, I'm 26, I have two kids. Like, I don't know if that's how this works, but I'm not gonna say, Yeah, my kids call you grandma, I call you mom, like it's cool. We're good. I was married at the time. Excuse me, and um she shares a story with even uh that her biological children didn't even know, which was that she had lost a child and never told anybody in the hospital and um or lost a child in the hospital, never told anybody, and um it was at a time when they just kind of sent women home and were like, get on with your life, there was no mourning or anything. And she said, I always felt that I was supposed to have a baby girl, and that baby girl is you. And I feel like this adoption is important because I kept saying, It's fine, it's fine. And she said, I think it's gonna matter more than you even imagine. And so we went downtown. You know, the courthouse now that has all the beautiful windows was brand new when we were in it, and the county building on the other side of the road was um the courthouse before that. And so we're in the courtroom with this judge that had never done an adult adoption, and he was just so giddy. He's like, This, this is so great. I think you guys should say something to each other, and we look at each other, and it was like exchanging wedding vows. It's the only thing I can describe it. She holds my hands, my mom, and she says, What are you gonna say? And I was like, I don't know, what are you gonna say? And she shares the story of losing her child, and then I turned to the judge and I had this profound moment come over me, and I said, Wow, 14 years ago, I was at the courthouse behind me, the county building, and I was standing in a judge's chambers at the age of nine, and I was just, yes, sir, yes, sir, yes, sir, with all the questions, super scared. He had no idea how abusive it was. I never had a caseworker visit me in all my time in foster care and check on me. That was the time with no cell phones. You kind of handed a business card and told, give me a call if you need me. Whose house phone should I use? Yeah. That's weird. Um, so it was during that time, and I said, I just I was so scared and I just yesered my way through the day. And how ironic that's like behind me.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:34

And I'm literally standing in this brand new courthouse, 50 people in the courtroom, including my children, that are raising hell because they're little, that's what they're supposed to do, get in trouble. And now I choose my life. I choose what my future looks like. I choose a family that has a motto that homes where they have to keep you. You don't screw up enough to get kicked out of the house. That's not a thing. You may have a consequence, but you don't get kicked out of the family. And um, that's always just kind of been the motto. And it really, she was right. It really was a turning point for me. That do I really not have to be the perfect kid and the perfect daughter and the perfect human being to be loved? Like, is that really a thing?

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

And it just started changing my perception around all of it. And at the time, um, I had founded the Christmas Box House with our founders, Richard Paul and Carrie Evans, and it kind of became this media frenzy. They picked up on it, they held this cool, let's give her a baby shower. So my mom sends out these invitations that are like, my 126 pound, that was a long time ago, five foot eight daughter, we're having a party, pink everything, and I'd never seen a baby picture of myself. I mean, obviously I knew it existed, but I'd never seen one. And in that process, I, by the way, had reunified with my biological family. Wow, wow, whole other conversation. And they reached out and I'd found pictures in what call them the old days, as the kids would say, they were slides. And so pictures were taken on the slide, and they'd found a slide of me at eight months old, and they had it blown up. Wow. And so I walk in my mom's house, and here's this big picture on an easel that you hadn't seen before or know existed.

SPEAKER_00 21:22

And you're like, oh, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Didn't you know I had one of those? I was a kid. I was a baby. Yeah. Like I'd always only known myself as a mom and someone that survived, and it was another one of those aha moments, you know, when we look back in our life and we really think about the chapters, if you will, in our life. If you really think about it, there's an aha moment in all of the pain. But you you have to be far enough removed to have context to find that. So for me, the aha moments came, you know, as I was making progress with my life, as I was making decisions about my own life to decide how I I was gonna make a difference and show up in my life and become the person I wanted to be instead of the person everyone said I would be. That was a huge shift. And so that baby picture was really a I I mattered to someone at some point enough that the decision was made to keep me. And it was also the first time that I found any level of respect for my mother, my biological mother, for all the wrong she'd done. I remember thinking, she didn't have to have me. Abortion was an option. I mean, she didn't have to choose that. I can okay, I can find gratitude in that. And that's kind of where my my trajectory really changed was my story of trying to find gratitude in all the moments that just frankly sucked. Like just trying to find gratitude in the little times that were just really hard and I I couldn't find it. And so I um that's kind of how the journey started up until then.

SPEAKER_00 22:56

Yeah. And how did you get like how did you know that this was the woman you were going to in Utah? Like, how did that connection from the woman in Lake Abbasu to Super interesting?

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Yeah, good question. Um, so now my sister Lisa in junior high school backup, right, was just a girl I slough school with. I don't know if they still call it sloughing, but in my time, missing school was I I always called it sloughing.

SPEAKER_00 23:19

Big Utah word.

SPEAKER_02 23:20

Okay, okay. So it's a Utah thing. Everyone's gonna get up. So missing school, sloughing school was a thing still, you know, for me in junior high. And we, and and for me, it was mainly because I had this abusive family, this mom that, you know, was was very physically and mostly mentally and emotionally verbally abusive. And so I would do anything to escape her. And we would go to who adopted me later's house, Carly, who never met me, never knew anything about me, because she bless her heart, worked two jobs. She was a single mom, never home. Yeah, worked two jobs to pay her mortgage for her three daughters soon to be at home. And um, so Lisa and I did a lot of partying in those days, and um, that's how I met the family. And when I was in Lake Havasu, I called Lisa after taking um, I don't remember what the bottle of pills were, but it was the whole bottle. And I, it's the first time that I'd ever had a situation where I was like, you know, I'm just done. I think some people's demons are just too big for this world. I remember telling her, it like, what's the point? What really is the point? If no one wants me to live with them and I have no purpose, I mean, I just remember feeling like I just don't get it. I don't have my brother and sister to take care of. I have no family anymore. What am I doing here? Like, what does Earth mean? What does this look like? And I'd also had a really tough time with the religion concept that brought me to that space. But anyway, I had, I had made that decision. And Lisa had stayed on the phone with me all night long as I gagged myself through up, took Epicac, did all the things that she was she knew because she was in the world more than me, and stayed up to make sure I was alive and well and she didn't need to call 911 and um kind of got me through well got me through all that. So when I said to her, I didn't find out till years later when my mom, our mom Carly says, I was like, so what did she tell you? Like I was coming to visit, or like how did that, like you're asking, how did that even happen? And she said, Well, she told me she had a friend coming for the weekend.

SPEAKER_00 25:31

Very long weekend.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Yeah, very long weekend. I was like, So basically, you didn't know. And she said, No, I didn't know. But my mom, the thing about her is she's everybody's welcome. Every Thanksgiving, she makes sure all of her kids know that if there's anyone that doesn't have a place for Thanksgiving, we have a place for them at the table. She reminds us every year. No one should be alone at Thanksgiving. If you guys know anybody, please bring them. We'll find a seat for their butt. She always like every year we get a text. Is there if there's anybody that needs a place? We're like, we know, mom. And when I moved in with her, um, no lie, I was like, Is this a freaking Noah's Ark? She had two daughters, two cats, two dogs, two birds, I'm not kidding you, two ferrets, two rabbits. So literally, I was like, Is this like the live Noah's Ark?

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Like, what's going on in here?

SPEAKER_02 26:27

Yeah, it was hilarious. And so um, that's how that came to be was I, and then she learned later, oh, after I was already there and I was proving to be healthy potential. Let's just call it that. She was like, You're the one that was always at my house. So I never knew who the girl was, and you're the one that stole my car, and you're the one, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

You're like, please don't kick me out now.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

I was like, Yeah, I'm that girl, but look at me now. I'm new, Celeste 2.0, she's new and improved. So there was always that that kind of joke that Celeste has come a long way. She knew I had potential.

SPEAKER_00 27:00

No, I love that. I can it's it's always sad. Like, if there's one thing that I hate to see, it's when kids have to grow up too fast. Yeah. Like so much of childhood is this slow and like steady reckoning of what the world is to prepare you for that when it hits you. Yes. But unfortunately, and like in your case, is a great example of it. Like, some kids have to grow up fast because in your example, it's like I have to take care of my sister. Like I now have to be the mother for that. Yep. And the the horrors that you had to go through of this abusive world. I mean, the fought, like the horrors of the foster care system that a lot of people are very unaware of. Um, and then also to the point of being like, Why even be here? Like, I don't like my past is terrible. I can't see the future getting better. There's nothing I'm gonna contribute to, like, why? Yeah, and then I mean it's even like what we were talking about when we were warming up of like no like everyone's story has someone that I mean in mom's story, it's her helping you, and you're the this woman I can't remember name, and like have a suit of her saying, Hey, yeah, I really there's something you can do, there's something that that there's something better for this, and then being able to mentor you and show you this, and then also being such huge role role models in that has only set the stage for for that potential that you now have. Yeah. And then I mean it's been also fun to see how you've challenged yourself in your life now to now create a system where you can be that for other people. That's the point, yeah. Exactly. And so I'm curious how this idea of the Christmas box came to be and I mean how it went from idea to a real thing and impacting people.

SPEAKER_02 28:31

It's been such a cool journey, um, because it is that like everything else in life. Um, it's interesting when you said um the point about kids growing up too fast, because I always say to foster children when I get the opportunity to speak to them, your soul is aged about 10 years because you've seen, heard, felt experiences that most adults I know haven't felt. And what that means for you is the downside is physically, mentally, like developmentally, you're not caught up to the 10 years that your soul's feeling. The benefit is if you use that as your superpower, think of all the things you as a foster child are learning. Your ability to read a room, your your ability to be adaptable, should you choose to strengthen these things, like you can turn all that into a huge superpower that can actually elevate you above those that don't have it. And that's a path you have to decide to take. But it really does me speak to how how fast they've grown up. And people will always say it's speaking engagements or book signings. They'll start to share their story and then they'll stop. And 100% of the time. But it was nothing like yours. They'll do like this, but they'll step back and they'll say, and they're just trying to show empathy. Yeah. So I get it. But they're like, it's not it's nothing like yours. And um the first thing I always say is, first of all, please never say that about yourself. It's a discredit to you, because one thing I have learned in in trauma therapy is um the brain doesn't know the difference, kind of like a dream. And you wake, you wake up and you're like, Did I really go to the bathroom or did I go in bed? I don't know. You hear those stories. And it's like it's true because the the brain doesn't know yet if that dream was real or not. And you need a minute to process reality. Um, the same thing happens with somebody's story, like factually, everything that has happened in your life that you would consider hurtful, harmful, not cool is as big of a deal to your brain as all mine is to mine, which means we get to be relatable, not competitive, empathetic to each other. Like, hey man, I'm sorry that happened to you. And you're like, I'm sorry that happened to you too. Let's connect and share our stories. There's there's no reason to discredit

A New Family And A Turning Point

SPEAKER_02 30:55

your story because you think someone else had it worse than you. So I'm like, please don't say that. And the other thing is um the the concept around um foster care and the ability to adapt is that um, like I said, kids have this incredible innate ability to grow their resilience, which is really what I like to speak to. Like, what are those skills and how do we grow into that? So our work fast forward into the Christmas box is really about um we can't change the trajectory. I always remind my team when they're like, this sucks so bad for this kid. I'm like, you're right, and we can't do a thing about what's happened. But what we can do is change the way they view childhood when they come to stay at one of our shelters. Every child deserves a childhood as our motto, and it's because we can say, What do you deserve now? And what does life look like? So, how we got here was I was working, I referenced working for Mr. Redford. I was working for him in my early 20s. Um, I was pregnant, about to transition out of that role, and frankly needed a job. And our founder, Richard Paul Evans, had just wrote a little green book called The Christmas Box, which is how we got our name, about the loss of a child through death. And he had self-published that book when everyone told him it couldn't happen, and it became next to the Celestian prophecy at the time, the world's first second book to ever hit the New York Times bestseller list as a self-published book.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 32:27

So this is way pre-Amazon.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

You know, we know there's 25 million books, fun fact, um, on Amazon now. This was way pre-that, um, pre-email, all the things that help us move the needle today did not exist. And so he did all that on his own. And when it went national and a publishing house took it or an agent took it and it went on auction, he and his wife um received at the time the first world's largest author advance for that book and two more ever to have been given. And he knew they wanted to give back to kids. So he needed a personal assistant. I was looking for a job. We met at the crane building here downtown, still here on Second South. And um, he was like, I need you to help me figure out this book tour thing. And I'm like, This is what, this is my wheelhouse. This is what I know how to do. I was 21, so this was a long time ago. And um about two and a half years in, he started this process of we want to give back, but we don't know how. But we know because my book is based on the loss of a child, we want it to be child-centric. He knew enough about my childhood, like I just dabbled in some things to know that it would matter to me. And I said, I really want to be a part of that. I want to be a part of launching something to figure out how to create a better system for kids. I don't know what it looks like, but I know that's where I want to go. And um, so we held a child welfare conference up at uh the University of Utah, the Graduate School of Social Work. We brought in the dean, we brought in 160 child welfare advocates. We literally went into this conference room of round tables with 160 people who wouldn't sit by each other, was the most bizarre thing. And I remember looking at him and I was like, I know I'm the young girl in the room, no degree, not a doctor, but I'm willing to bet this is part of the problem that went wrong for me is partnerships are not talking to each other. So after a day of meeting and everybody collaborating, we were like, we have this influx of funding. We have this huge need in the state of Utah. Because uh, by the way, Utah was one of nine states that was being sued. Um, our governor and our state department were being sued by the National Center for Youth Law to California for the mistreatment of children.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

We had kids dying in the foster care system. So we had this huge need and we had this money. It's like, when do you get that opportunity? Yeah. Um, we were like, what is the single most important thing we can do for Utah's children? And, you know, when we uh Richard and his wife had an experience of a primary children's hospital where they brought in their youngest, uh, his name is Michael, he had like 106 fever. And he they brought him into primary children's, and there was a police officer calling intervention with the same age child holding the same two-year-old boy that their son was, with almost all of his hair ripped out of his head. And Richard asked him, What are you gonna do with this child? And he said, Honestly, sir, I'm gonna go to the first person that answers the phone. And that's just not the right thing for kids. Like we needed time to have a place for them to go, to keep siblings together, to bring resources under one roof, to do proper due diligence. Like, can they go home under a safety plan? Or do they need to live with another family member? They need to go in foster care as a last resort. But we need some, we need a minute to provide them a safe place. So we started opening these shelters named after the book. They're called the Christmas Box Houses. We have three of them in the state of Utah, Moab, Salt Lake, and Ogden. And I'll tell you the most beautiful thing about them is not that they're shelters. We have a lot of shelters in Utah, but most shelters can only license through the age of 12. Um, we take the whole child to the age of 18, which means unlike me, those brothers and sisters get to stay together until a decision can be made to place them. And we keep about a thousand together every year, which is phenomenal. Having lost my brother and sister, I will tell you, um, losing my mom, losing all my stuff, my neighbors, my cousins was all traumatic, but losing my brother and sister was by far the most traumatic. It's like the only thing that you have to connect you to anything that matters, to anything that, you know, even like sibling rivalry. My kids, when my kids grew up fighting like siblings do. And in my brain, I'm like, if you guys only knew what it was like to not have your, you know, and then I'm like, but they're not supposed to know.

SPEAKER_00 37:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

It's kind of like when people watch. Yeah, yeah, like you kind of have to beat each other up just a little. Uh sometimes verbally, sometimes physically. Like, no, parents don't love it, but it's kind of the right to passage, I guess. They all do it. And we we didn't have those times, you know. Fast forward, my biological sister Tani does live with me today, which is awesome. Um, she's lived with me for about eight months. Um, and it has been a like a beautiful healing time for us. It comes with a lot of pain and heartache because she tends to go to we missed out. And I'm like, but you can only start from today.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:45

Like you can only start from what we have today, which is what we tell the kids at the house.

SPEAKER_00 37:49

Yeah. How did you two end up? Because you I mean, you guys' paths diverged early on. How did they come back together?

SPEAKER_02 37:55

So the first time was was unfortunately awful. We um, so when we both had been, you know, put in different families and we were gonna be adopted. We hadn't had a chance to say goodbye. And our caseworkers thought, this would be so cool to reunite them on adoption day to be adopted. So all of a sudden, we're at this courthouse. I was telling you about the county building. Yeah, you can see where this is going. And we walk in dressed in our church best clothes and see each other for the first time in about a year and a half. And in my brain, as the oldest, I'm thinking, oh my God, they finally got it. They finally realized we're supposed to be together. I wasn't a bad girl. Yeah, I was just protecting them. And they're thinking, how cute they get to all their adoption day on the same day. And when I looked up, so we we literally like it's the run down the hall moment, we all embrace, and my little brother, who was now probably three, three and a half, looks at me and says, Where have you been, sissy? And I was like, Buddy, I don't know where to start. I would have never left you. I'm so sorry, you're sad. Um, and the caseworker looks at my face and realizes, oh crap, we've screwed up. They're not only gonna say hi for the first time, but they're gonna say bye again. And it the first, so that first interaction was awful. It was so, it was just like the last straw. It was just like the ripping off the band-aid, um, hardcore. No good was coming out of that. And then about a year and a half in, again, another year and a half, they all realize there these kids are not gonna be okay. They have to have some sort of connection. So we were pen pals. Um, we did get reunited. Um, the state determined that was okay. Our adopted parents determined that was okay under some guidelines. So we did kind of grow up. Um, pen pals, we had some visits because we kept moving every six months. It's a thing for me. And um in high school, you know, we had some time together, but we never had like that bonding. We we were involved

Siblings, Separation, And Healing Later

SPEAKER_02 40:05

in helping each other raise children, but never like they get to live together. And what is it like to like live together and be siblings?

SPEAKER_00 40:13

It's like you have like these like little strings to each other, know of existence, know what's going on, but it's never like true cohabitation, family, brother, sister, sibling.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

Complication of the weird day-to-day.

SPEAKER_00 40:23

Yeah, kind of like you're talking about about like I mean, rough each other up a little bit, make fun of each other. Like it wasn't that, it was just sorry, I hurt your feelings.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Like some of that stuff happens. Like, I don't and I remember in high school checking on her. I was so I was older than her, and I had children at a young age, because you know, we sometimes do that in Utah. So I had my son at age 22, and I remember still calling my sister and making sure she was taking her meds, and she would be like, dude, when can you not like just be a sister? Like you're not a mom. And I'm like, I don't know how to not be your mom. In all fairness, I don't know how. I'm parentified, they call it. Like, I don't know how to not do it. And then fast forward, I'm sitting in the hospital, literally holding my son, my firstborn, and I remember calling her and saying, I know what it feels like to be a mom, and I'm gonna do a really good job, the best job I can at becoming a sister. But I didn't know how before that moment of, oh, I have my own son, I have my own child. This is what really being a mom feels like. Um, so I had to transfer that.

SPEAKER_00 41:27

Yeah, it's not gonna be a light switch of just, oh, yep, we're done with this, time to be your sister.

SPEAKER_02 41:31

Yeah, and so I was like, I'm gonna try really hard. And and we did, and we, you know, we've been close ever since, but the living together is definitely unique. Writing my book for her was also unique. It was hard for her to read things about our life that she didn't remember because she was so little. Yeah. Um, and then I remember telling her, you don't ever have to read it, you're gonna read some stuff that's really hard for you, kind of like my kids. Y'all have permission to never read this. You know enough about my life to know enough. Yeah, but you don't need to get into the weeds. And by the way, I've written three things in the book nobody on this planet knew until I put them in the book. So everyone has permission that loves me to not read it. And she decided to read it. And I said, the only commitment I can give to you is that we can talk about it as much as you want. And so that it's been a lot of that, a lot of processing. But I was like, just no, nothing that happened in here was your fault. All of it was my choice. Every situation of harm I put myself into, by the way, I chose. No one forced me into those situations. I chose them. They're unfortunate and it sucks to be a kid and do it, but it it definitely gave me perfect purpose and it's hard, and it's hard to remember it. But it also provided, like I said, the only sense of purpose I had um when I didn't, I didn't know how to be a kid. Yeah, that that wasn't a thing for me. So I think we do what we need to do to survive situations, and then later we figure out okay, how do how do we now thrive in it? How do we change that narrative?

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Yeah, well, it's like the people I talk to that go through severe trauma, especially early on in life. I mean, when you think about every traumatic experience, it's almost like, I mean, a battle, like both literally and figuratively. And every battle you go into, you either win or you lose. And so every single one of these traumatic experiences for you to come out on the side that you are means you had to have won each of these. Yeah. Some there, some of them were really close, but you still won. And when you win, there's something learned, there's something gained, there's something appreciated. Kind of like we were talking about of like the people who go through this tend to come out on so on top with oh, I know how to read a room, I know how to communicate, I know how to get myself out of a situation, I know how to manage people. All these like soft skills, street skills, street smarts that people have, like that usually ends up being to your words like a superpower later on. Yeah. And in my experience, like, I mean, and also like going back. To your point of like everyone's upbringing and context that we all live with is going to be hard things regardless. I mean, there's gonna be people like, and it's a whole schmorgis board of the spectrum of how bad and traumatic they are, but those are what sends the context for them their life. And like for me, I was always my dad was never present, my mom always had to work to um make up for him, so and my sisters were older, so I always had to grow up a lot, like alone. And so I just had to navigate a lot of that, and like that to this day has always been very helpful for me. And now it doesn't mean that it wasn't easy, like it was easy when it was then. No, like there it was hard, but yeah, that's what made it was today. Now, unfortunately, there's the opposite and like dark side of the others where people don't make it out of that trauma or they do succumb to that's right, they didn't have someone on the other side of that phone telling them to take the epicac and get the pills out. And we all know, unfortunately, those people and we'll know more for the course of our lives. Yeah. And so to be able to help people, uh, especially children, being able to have them understand and like package up, be like, hey, your childhood that you've experienced to this point is what it is. I can't change this. I'm not gonna explain it away, I'm not gonna try to diminish it, but it is what it is. Yeah. But just like the woman that helped you in like Havasu, it's like we're going to change the trajectory of what you can be. Yep. Your story's not over. There's so much to do to help not make all of these battles or the next ones that they face be the one that they lose. That's right. And so I mean it's it's it's amazing to see because like I mean, it's like it's a cheesy saying of that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. That's true. Like it does make you strong.

SPEAKER_02 45:39

Like, even some of the people Or it doesn't, if you if you choose that route.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 45:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

You can like it's like well, kind of I kind of alluded to it, but saying it more directly, like there's so many things that you get taught or told as a kid, or like even in I mean if shit happens as an adult anyway anyway, of like, oh, like don't do this. This is a bad idea. You're like, okay, whatever. And they're like, oh, I actually had to learn that lesson. I gotta try it myself. I had to experience this to truly understand what that is.

SPEAKER_02 46:02

Is the stove really that hot?

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Yep, sure is even if my mom told me whoops, blister. Like there was a stupid You gotta know. Yeah, well, there's like a stupid TikTok I saw the other day of this mom being like, All right, my kids saw this cocoa powder and saw saw that had the Hershey's on it, so they wanted it. Here you go, bud. It's like and he puts it in, you just see his like his face just change and he like coughs and it like the powder comes out.

SPEAKER_02 46:24

I told you it was baking powder, but you really wanted to try it.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

You saw chocolate, you wanted it.

SPEAKER_02 46:27

It's not gonna kill you, but here.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Yeah, exactly. Lessons learned.

SPEAKER_02 46:30

Now I'm really not gonna ever take a teaspoon of chocolate baking soda powder again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

Totally. And but and it's I think the You do have to learn those. Yeah. And then like, and that's like where I mean, people like you, people like Preston Cochran, people like uh I mean, that have seen some of the hardest things and turn around and want to be those mentors, want to be those people to help pull them out of it. Because even like you're talking about in the 80s, like it was really bad to the point that there's lawsuits and things had to change. Yep. And until people want to change and people want to be the ones to actually solve the problem instead of point at it or blame someone else for it or say that someone else's responsibility, that's when things actually do change.

SPEAKER_02 47:10

Yeah. And I think to your point of um, like when you talk about your story and you're, you know, and you're clearly super successful and you're killing it and you're like paving this way for yourself. But there's still those times when you're like, oh, I remember that time when that was hard, or something will come up, you know, we call them triggers, which by the way, I just think are friends because we haven't managed it yet. So they're those are not bad words for me. Um, but they come up in adulthood. And I think what's awesome about any level of success, it's part of the resiliency platform, right? Is if you if you can value that, yeah, I maybe am not exactly where my goal is yet, but man, I've I've rec I recognize that I've I've I've been successful along the way to even get where I'm at. And you can feel and acknowledge and celebrate that value, then when those triggers and those hard things hit, even as an adult, because by the way, I don't care who you are, they're gonna manifest somewhere in your life. You're either gonna struggle in adult relationships or intimate relationships or you're gonna have abandonment issues. Like everybody has their stuff, right? Whether kind of manifests somewhere. And you're like, wow, that's really my stuff coming up. If you can value those successes along the way, and like I said, celebrate them, then when those triggers and those big things come up in your adulthood, you have the ability with context to healthily say to yourself, not sure how today, but I know I can figure it out because you do know you're capable. And if you recognize that you're capable and you value the ability you have to be capable, you can figure it out. You're not uncapable of doing that. I think it's when we get in the rut of we, you know, it's like I have a daughter, this is a perfect example. She will always

Resilience, Triggers, And Celebrating Small Wins

SPEAKER_02 49:05

say, but I just haven't, I'm just not there yet, mom. I'm just not there yet. I'm just not there yet. She has this constant and I'll say, But I'm so proud of you. And she's like, stop being proud of me for the things I'm supposed to do. And I'm like, babe, if you can't celebrate the little wins, that big win of whatever you think that looks like is also not gonna be a win.

SPEAKER_00 49:27

And it'll happen in a flash.

SPEAKER_02 49:28

And it will happen in a flash, and you you blink and like whatever, two, three, four, five, ten years have gone by, and you're like, I didn't have any fun with that process. I didn't enjoy any of that. It's like when you were saying earlier about enjoy a perk. Sometimes when you can walk in a room and somebody has said to you, Eric, I have something for you. You've done a lot for me, you've promoted me, whatever you've done, right? And they're like, we have something for you. Enjoy that. Like, I I earn the right to be here. I get to have this moment, whatever it is. I don't care if it's a mammoth game or whatever you get, right? It doesn't, it's irrelevant. It matters. If it matters to you and somebody recognizes you for something you've done for them, allow yourself to sit for a minute and say, I've done well. Like I've done well for myself. I'm gonna be okay right now and have that beer at a hockey game or whatever the moment looks like for you. It's okay. Yeah, like I just don't think we celebrate enough the small wins because we're it's never enough.

SPEAKER_00 50:27

Yeah. I mean, it kind of goes back to your saying where people are like, oh, I did this, but it's not as bad as yours. Yeah. And so it's like we have this weird pedestal of like you have to be the most and best of anything before you can get any sort of credit. It's like the opposite of that. And like I'm always a big believer in if like if you don't like the journey, you're never gonna like the destination. Yep. Because even if you're expecting this whole thing to happen and then I mean, whether I mean, like if your pedestal is m being a millionaire, you're gonna have a million dollars or you're gonna be worth a million dollars and be like, oh, it's not I'm but now I want five.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

Right, well now I want to find it.

SPEAKER_00 50:57

Yeah, and then that moves, and then it's and like that's one thing I have to focus a lot on because like I generally have a lot of anxiety and like thankfully I've gone through the steps of like how to manage it. But I mean, the office opposite of anxiety is experience because the anxiety is the fear of the things that you don't know. And so if it's like, oh, I've done these hard things in the past 10 years and I'm faced with something hard, it's like, oh, I've done this before. That feels familiar. Yeah, and it's like this feels familiar. I know how to I don't know how to do it, but I know I've done it, I figured it out. So And I know I'm capable. Yeah, and we'll do it again. That's right. But that's first time pretty hard. Second time hard. Third time, still hard.

SPEAKER_02 51:36

And I think it's okay to say because like I had a I had a beautiful experience, but it was also I just thinking about it, it was only a month ago, and I'm like, every Wednesday's a little anniversary of this moment happening. I had a 14-year-old, well, I had a caseworker call and say, I have a 14-year-old boy that is in the middle of reading your book, and he's kind of, I don't know how to say it, but like fangirling out. He really wants to meet you. And I was like, Is that a thing? And she's like, Can I bring him to your office? And I was like, sure. So it was a one o'clock, one o'clock on a Wednesday, and this sweet boy comes in, um, and his eyes are like just welling up with tears. He's just, he's so excited, but I can tell there's so much hurt there. And he just leans in and he says, Um, how did you do it? How'd you make it? And I was like, Whoa, this is a big conversation. Um, so I asked the two people that came in, I was like, Can you guys just leave us and you can spend some time with me at my table? And so we spent the next 40 minutes together and had the most amazing conversation. And he said, uh, I was like, So how did you like find my book and all the things? Like, what a random book for you to just find. And and I knew based on what the caseworker told me, that this particular day was gonna be a really traumatic day for him. He had two big things. He had um an appointment with a judge to talk about whether he could go home or not to see mom, and he really wanted to. So that was gonna be hard. Like, did she do what she's supposed to do to have me come home? And the other was a wasn't with a judge to determine the outcome of something criminal he'd done. So he's only 14, so you think how bad could it be, right? Yeah, so I was like, So I'd find my book, and I know today's a really hard day for you, and we just kept talking, and we got the opportunity where I asked him, So what did you do? And he puts his head down in total shame. And he's like, I stole a car. I was like, Okay. And he just kept put his head down, and I was like, buddy, it already happened, so all we can talk about is up, right? And he said, Um, I said, Why'd you steal the car? And he said, I was so pissed, I was so frustrated. I just kept running and running because I just want all this to go away. And he was just, you know, he's 14, man, like his brain's not even developed. And he said, Um, I stole a car, I went to drive off, and I looked on the passenger seat, and your book was there.

SPEAKER_00 53:59

Oh what are the chances? That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 54:02

Divine intervention, yeah. So he said, I pulled

How Christmas Box Houses Protect Kids

SPEAKER_02 54:05

over, I started reading it and in good 14-year-old fashion. He said, and it was so boring. And then he looks up and he's like, I'm sorry. And I said, Please don't be sorry for being honest. That's the last thing you ever need to be sorry for. And he said, But I was just, I was just like told I need to keep reading it. So I just sat there and kept reading it. And he said, and then he just started crying. And he said, Your story's my story. And I'm so sorry that happened to you. And I said, Buddy, I'm sorry that happened to you. And he said, Your mom is my mom. She, and he starts naming all the things off that she did. And he said, And your brother and sister's my brother and sister, they were adopted and they live in Washington, D.C. and I never get to see him again. Your story's my story. And I thought I was all alone. Wow. And he just kept crying and crying, and I was like, Oh my gosh. And he said, So I just decided at that time I don't want this life. And he's super animated. He's like, I don't want this life, I don't want anything about this life, and I'm gonna turn myself in. And he said, I I turned myself in. And I was like, I think the judge might be a little lenient on you for doing the right thing. And he said, I don't, but I don't know what to do. I don't know how to be okay. I don't know how to make it, and and I just want to work for you. How do I come work for you? And I was like, All right, buddy, let's let's just like reel it in. You're 14, you got four years before you're adulting. Four years is a short time, it's a blink, trust me. What are you gonna do in four years to make the biggest impact in your life? You're gonna get back into school. We already talked about that. You're gonna stop smoking weed and don't tell me you don't because you already accidentally mentioned it. And by the way, this isn't a moral issue. This is your brain's not developed. So give yourself a minute. If you still want to when you're 26, you can have a different conversation. But for now, let's not do that. Let's give your brain a chance to just survive and function. Because I didn't want to feel like I was judging him, right? And um, I was like, find good friends. And by the way, not the friends that are like, hey, come smoke a bowl with me, but the friends that are gonna show up when you have nothing to offer them. Get in school. I don't care if you join a team or a math club. I don't really care. Just get into something that matters to you and kick its ass. And in four years, when you've graduated high school and you still want a job, you come find me and I have a place for you. And he, I still get messages from the caseworker like what a life-changing moment that was for him. But I it completely changed so much about my life and the value of story because I always say that the pretty much the only difference between me and you is I just didn't know anything about your story before we came in here.

SPEAKER_01 56:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:48

Now I know you're raised by a single mom, and there's there's like lots of things I know about you I would have never known, right? The power of story and connection, which is what I love about your podcast, is we get to learn about people we normally wouldn't know nothing about. And there's always a story behind who someone shows who they are, face value, who they are in public, who they are even with their family. Like there's a story of who we are inside that makes us who we are. So the Christmas box house for me is my legacy next to raising my children. It's the one thing I get to do to say, I think I'm gonna leave the world a little better than I found it, which I think most of us want to say we we want to do, right? Um, even 10% better, 3% better, it doesn't matter, just a little bit better than you found it. Um, I can say you already have two, and I think that's pretty great. So for me, the Christmas box house is that we impact 14,000 children a year. Um, this is our 30-year anniversary of serving 185,000 children. Wow, which is like, how do you get your head around that number? I tell people it'll film Madison Square Gardens like more than eight and a half times.

SPEAKER_00 57:57

I mean it's like the whole Salt Lake Valley is.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

Yeah, it's all the um, by the way, all the all the Utah campuses put together, all the football can all the football schools that we have that have football fields, all of them at the same time filled up. Yeah. Um, it's a lot of kids and it's super bittersweet. We have to have it. If somebody said to me today, guess what, Slus, we no longer have to help abuse children, I'd be like, blame me off, man. That's cool. I'd be great.

SPEAKER_01 58:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:24

But every year it gets harder. Every year we get more difficult to place kids. They stay with us a little longer. Um, our average for keeping kids is about two weeks to 45 days, and now we're seeing that 45 days stretch a little bit more. Um, most foster kids are on psychotropic meds, we call it mood management. Whole other conversation. Um and so we we tend to have them longer and they get a little bit more difficult to find a home for, and so the need just isn't going anywhere. And we we really rally around a community to serve these kids because I believe children aren't designed to be managed by systems. You know, they're they're in other countries, they're managed by communities and villages, and we all have the same. Yeah, and so when I have alumni that come back now and are like, you changed my life, and and we don't abuse our kids. We were able to stay together as brother and sister and they talk about their successes, you know, I'm like, man, we really have changed a trajectory of what that child's future looks like, and we don't know when they leave the shelters because they're in state custody. We we can't like keep track of them.

SPEAKER_00 59:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:39

You just hope that we just hope we made a little bit of a difference. Yeah, and it's like when they finally are able to circle back and say, How can I bring my company or my family back to help? Because you made such a difference in my life, then we really know the impact is made, and it's really cool when I get to say to them, everything you got here, every new item, everything you had when you were here and took with you when you left was donated by a stranger, someone that loves you and has no idea who you are. Like, how cool is that? They don't know your name, they know nothing about you, but they gave to you, and now you get to pay it forward. And it's a game changer. They have that aha moment I was talking about of like, oh, I never thought about that. And I'm like, I really encourage you, like I did with my book, to look at every transition you made, whether it was six months or a year or whatever that looked like for you in foster care. Go back and think, I want to remember the hardest time in my life and think about the one person that stepped up for me. And when you think about that person that will instill something in your in your psyche and in your heart, that's called forgiveness. And I want you to focus on that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:54

And that'll bring that'll help you love the people that eventually wronged you and just make you a better version of yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:00

Totally. So if we can all be that person for another person, then it's the best we can do. Yeah, hopefully one. That's all we got. We don't have the Christmas box doesn't need to exist because we can take care of each other. But yeah, for now, I'm glad that we have it. But I guess like if anybody's listening and they want to help support or help like because as as you said, like things are getting more extended, there aren't as many resources. I mean, how can people help support this or help um impact these lives?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:29

So the Christmasbox.org, our website, is a great resource, or Google us. Um, that's that we're gonna come right up. Um, because I feel like everybody wants to give, they just sometimes don't know the best way. So we try to make it really easy. You know, whether somebody looks at our wish list and they're like, oh, I can donate off of that, or it's getting moody in here. I know. It's cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:50

There's a motion sensor somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:51

Like no one's no one's alive in here. Um, so whether they want to donate something off the wish list or they're like, ah, I don't have time to shop, they there's an Amazon list, they can have it direct shipped, they can click the I just want to donate monetarily, and that helps us buy things we don't get donated. Or I can hold a donation drive with my church, community, friends, whatever. Um I want to volunteer is an option. I want to come spend some time. It's a there are 15,000 square foot shelters. There's a lot of property, so we always use help need help like waiting and sorting donations. Or if you just really don't have any time and none of that works for you, one of the things I think social media is cool for is um sharing messages on how people can get involved. It's like if you go onto our Facebook, Instagram page, whatever, and you're like, you know what, I can just share that out today. That's cool. That's like there's so many ways that I think people can help. And the Christmasbox.org provides all that information for people. So whatever works for you, we'd love to have you.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:52

Awesome. And then lastly, before we wrap up, I want to ask you the question that I ask everybody at the end of each episode. But if you could have someone on the Small Lake City podcast and hear more about what they're up to in their story, who would you want to hear from?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:04

Ooh, who would I want to hear from? You know, I've become really good friends with a gal named Julie. I don't know if you've had her on the show. I didn't see her on there. Um she owns a she owns her own um magazine, Mill Creek City Life style. She's coming here with me to have dinner and drinks,

How To Help And Who To Invite Next

SPEAKER_02 1:03:25

and she's got a really cool story. She um has built this magazine from zero up, and she has her own personal story she could share. And she's just, I love, like anybody else, I love a good success story.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:39

I love when somebody is taking, taking something that's small and just pushed through all the failures and all the you can't do it, you can't do it, and then they're killing it. And she it reminds me a lot of you because when I was telling you earlier, like I love your diversity of the show. I love that you have people that like we I probably wouldn't interact with a couple of them on a day-to-day basis, but now I'm like, I hope I meet them. She does the same thing, she she honors and recognizes those people in her magazines. It's not just about like ads, yeah, it's about true stories of people in our valley and who are these people. So she's super cool to know. Um, and I'd love I'd love people to know more about her, like and people like her. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:22

No, I mean, you know, so I know. Yeah, I've this isn't the first time I've heard of her. Sounds like it's a sign.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:27

She's right. Um, challenge accepted. She's super cool. Um, yeah, she's probably she's one of those cool people.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:35

No, Celeste, thank you so much for all that you do and like the 185,000 kids' lives that you've supported so far and only more to come. Uh anybody who can help support, support in some way. Um, yeah, it takes a community and we're part of that community. So that's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:51

Keep on keeping up.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:52

Takes a village. It does it does. Literally.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:54

And then some.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:56

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:57

No, thank you for coming.