S2, E13: Tyler Glenn - Neon Trees

Tyler Glenn (Neon Trees) has lived a version of the Utah story a lot of people only whisper about: growing up Mormon, feeling out of place, and using music as the safest room in the house. We talk about what it’s like to build an identity when your faith, your family culture, and your sexuality all pull in different directions, and why “fitting in” can feel like disappearing. 

We also rewind the Neon Trees timeline the way it actually happened: busking and garage practice, writing songs on a mission with whatever gear was available, then moving to Provo and finding a real launchpad in the local scene. Tyler breaks down the years of regional touring, early internet momentum, and the moment the band finally got in front of the right people. We get into songwriting craft, collaboration, and why co-writing isn’t a dirty word when you’re trying to make your best work. 

Then the story turns personal and public. Tyler shares what it meant to be framed as “still gay but still Mormon,” what cracked during his faith crisis, and how he poured that pain into a solo record that continues to help ex-Mormon and LGBTQ listeners feel less alone. We also dig into LoveLoud Festival with Dan Reynolds, why LGBTQ support inside faith-heavy communities still matters, and why funding and corporate allyship feel tougher right now. 

If you care about the Utah music scene, the reality of the music industry, or the messy middle of deconstruction and healing, this one goes there. Subscribe for more conversations like this, share it with someone who needs it, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

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Transcript

Utah Identity And Hiding In Music

SPEAKER_00 1:30

I always like the joke I always tell it to people it's like, oh, there's only three types of people in Utah. There's Mormons, ex Mormons, and Californians. They're like either more Mormon, you are or the people that came here.

Fueling Recovery With Gnarly Nutrition

SPEAKER_01 1:40

I felt like I could hide in it. I am Mormon, I've been raised Mormon, I'm Mormon. I've never fit in, and I've always felt kind of watching my life and not like existing in it. It still wasn't out yet as gay. I just sort of decided I was going to like lean into the band and like being an artist because I could hide there. I noticed a shift of Jared. It was a lesson to be like, you're Jared Leto, you're like, why are you jealous of like a little mother? And I'm fine to talk about this because he didn't talk about this. But it was an opportunity. I the writer from Rolling Stone came out to Pleasant Grove where I was living in an apartment. She did a whole story about how I still wanted to be gay, but wanted to be Mormon. I love weed and mushrooms and stuff. I've never felt higher and more exhilarated than relinquishing that shame.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

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SPEAKER_01 3:16

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Of like not understanding, hey, how much fucking work that takes.

SPEAKER_01 3:19

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

And then so, but then I was like, well, who would it be? And like thankfully, like, which is like a wild thing for Utah, there's enough noteworthy and recognizable bands and people that I'm like, well, it'd be kind of cool. Because it's like, I mean, you like Dan Reynolds and Magic Dragons, you have Neon Trees, you have, I mean, Post Malone falls into that core category now. I mean, you even have like NBA Youngboy, technically. So you have like all of these things, and I was like, that could be a pretty cool um group. But then obviously, as like as I look through what it all takes, I'm like, maybe one day, but not today. But then it's been fun. Like, you're someone who I've I mean seen and followed since I mean, like what, 15 plus years now?

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Yeah, it's probably 20. Yeah. I moved to Provo in 2005, so it was 20 years. Yeah, 21 years.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

That's good. I mean, probably the person that showed up in Provo in 2005 and the person you are today are two very different people that they are.

Finding Yourself Through Records

SPEAKER_01 4:16

They are, and they're like the same. It's like um, I mean, I I'm a Californian at at my core, but I've been in Utah for 20 years, so I you know it's half half my life I'm 42, so yeah, it's kind of split, split right down the middle, and I I still am very much myself and have found like my groove here. Um but yeah, I'm I'm uh I'm also very much like a Californian.

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Yeah. I mean it's like I always like the joke I always tell it to people, like when talking about Utah, it's like, oh, there's only three types of people in Utah there's Mormons, ex-Mormons, and Californians. And you're like either born Mormon, you are, or the people that came here. So you get to kind of like have rubber like two, well, three, like I guess depending on how you talk about it. But yeah, want to go back to the beginning. I actually want to go before you got here, but like before you came here, I mean, what got you into music? What made you be like, you know what, this is the dream I want to chase, or even just that introduction of like put that thought in your head?

SPEAKER_01 5:13

It's always had to do with identity for me and music. So, like, I um, you know, my mom put me into like dance and ballet because I wasn't good at sports and she wanted me to be active. Um But I I I just found when I had the autonomy to like buy a CD and like um go watch a music video on TV and stuff, like I I identified with that, and I felt like I could hide in it. Cause I, you know, it's the 90s. I'm I am Mormon, I'm being raised Mormon, I'm Mormon. Um, but I am not I've never fit in, and I don't say that in some like cool, like I've never fit in politics way. I just never I've never fit into where I've been, and I've always felt kind of um watching my life and not like existing in it, and that was part of my childhood. And so music was this full escape for me. And um the way people watch, I mean I love film and I love movies, but the way people like watch films and like lose themselves in it, I listen to the I fall into a record. Like I I lose myself into um to music very easily, and I it didn't really come like to my mind that I could do it until my friend started learning guitar and then said he needed a singer, and it was just like us you know fucking off in his garage, but it was bond, it's bonding too.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

I like was bonding with my guy friends and um especially like go through that together because it's not like he's learning the guitar, it's like all right, I know how this all works. Yes, I know what I want you to do. It's like we're just gonna strum, we're gonna figure things out, and we're gonna I mean try to put something together, but at the end of the day, we're still hanging out, being homies and girls.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

And we sucked. Uh I mean I I was finding my voice, so I was probably emulating like Billy Joe Armstrong and like um Stephen Jenkins from Thrive Blind, and like even some dashboard, like Chris Carabo, like just that kind of nasal y because that was what sounded right coming out, and that's what I was listening to in the early 2000s, late 90s, and um and then once I started performing with him and we would just you know, we would busk, like it's Temecula, California, so it's this still the suburbs, but we would we would go to like um you know places where people shop and stuff and and busk. And um it was the minute that I could see I could affect energy in the room with my voice, and like I there was something like palatable that people responded to. And then I started reading like uh Bruce Springsteen's autobiography, and he like was swept away with his story, and I was just like, I think there's something possible here, but I don't know how to do it. I'm from Temecula like I would go to shows all the time, like San Diego and LA are the like the neighbor cities, so like you know, I was I became a seating kid in you know the late 90s, early 2000s, and went to shows and that became like more palatable, you know, to to start music. And um, I met my guitar player who's in Neon Trees, Chris, and he was in my ward in um in California, and um he was a little older than me, and we just like we had nothing to talk about except when we were talking about music, and then we had everything to talk about. So um, you know, it it was years before we had real conversations because we would just talk about music or we would talk about making the music or performing the music.

Mission Life With Secret Songwriting

SPEAKER_00 8:39

Yeah, which is so fun to have because like if you have this side of you that resonates with music that you I mean when you experience it, it hits your soul. To have someone who can like resonate with that is such a hard thing to find, especially when you're living in this kind of like very micro community within Southern California and like this LDS community to be like, hey, there's part of me that isn't seen, not many people can see it, and then all of a sudden there's this person who speaks that language instantly.

SPEAKER_01 9:04

And absolutely, and it's pre-I always have to emphasize it's pre-internet, it's pre-cell phones, it's pre um American Idol, it's pre like any sort of like tangible like, oh, I could go do that and maybe break in. Like, so so the minute, yeah, it was it was full speaking a language, and um, and then I I went on a mission. Where'd you go? Not expected. I went to Nebraska.

SPEAKER_02 9:28

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Um, and I I uh it was very unexpected, but I I sort of at the time was like, I'm either gonna like dive into what this Mormon thing is and do that, or I'm gonna go to college and I I don't want to go to college because I want to start a band, and I but I need like this two-year window to figure it out. And I went on my mission and had a great experience to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

I'm I'm vehemently not LDS anymore, but like that's kind of the section of my Mormon experience I don't throw out because that's kind of where I'm at too, because a lot of people ask me like, well, you're not Mormon now, and like not at all. No, and I'm not but like what do you think about it? I'm like, well, if I go back in time and I didn't do that, what would those two years look like? I probably have just gone to college earlier, started drinking, partying, doing whatever, but like to have that accountability, to have that responsibility, yeah, to have like something you have to do with it. Where did you go? Uh Washington, state.

SPEAKER_01 10:23

Okay, so it was state side.

SPEAKER_00 10:26

Yeah, exactly. I still had a car, I had an apartment, I had a Walmart nearby. Yeah, but like it's yeah, because I'm with you. Like, I always have this kind of like cognitive dissonance about it, where like there's parts of it I dislike, but at the end of the day, I'm like, it's still your foundation, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Like, like that's the thing. Like, I as much as I we can get to that section of my life, but like as much as I wanted to burn it all down, like and and reject a lot of it, I it's still my only life that I've experienced in.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

And you can't change that.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

And I call that my coming of age, too. It's like my 19 to 21. Well, like you said, a lot of people go to college and experience with sex and drugs and things like that, or go to college and start their career and their families, or whatever, you know, path. And I I needed um that two-year window, but I was so fixated on starting the band when I got back and came back in 2005 from my mission.

SPEAKER_00 11:17

And was it like when you're on your mission, was it like in the back of your head constantly of just music or whatever, what you were thinking, and like journaling ideas?

SPEAKER_01 11:24

When I yes, yeah. I mean, I had a task scam four-track recorder because again, this is early 2000s, so and and you're on a mission, so you don't necessarily have access to like time or or pro tools or whatever, and I that wasn't didn't even exist. But yeah, on my P days, I would record songs and um sometimes after hours too. I I reflect on like the worst things I did on my mission, and it really was just like record music or like sometimes sneak music, which is what a sin, you know. Yeah, but like I didn't do the nefarious things I think people would think maybe I have done or would have done, or I was not yeah, I was not out like breaking the rules the way, the way that maybe it's that's how I was like I was for all like intents and purposes, like I was an obedient good missionary, like I remember one of my companions would like we got the Beatles White album, yeah, and listen to that, and that was great.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

And uh he was like, I just need like you know, it's it's spiritual to me. I was like, I'm not gonna say no. And then like because like I was a Spanish-speaking missionary, so be like, eh, let's go listen to some like like we listened to Taking Back Sunday and like blah boy, so but like we would do it on P days or like to psych us up. Yes, like it was always trying to relate back to let's go teach compared to the worst things that I heard knew and heard a missionary doing, like we're good, like we're fine, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

No, I mean, no, like yeah, we could that's a whole nother tangent. Um, but I but it also converted me, I think, my mission, which better for worse, like I I was always very skeptical of the church, but I knew that it brought my family happiness and it was my like conduit to God at the time. So like I did, I didn't believe in it full send until through my mission, and I think the experiences on my mission sort of like kind of solidified it, and yet I still didn't feel like I fit into it, but I I think I bought into the idea this is true, and I don't want to turn my back on it because it's brought me like good things, yeah. And I still wasn't out yet like uh as gay, and so like and I hadn't even like had a sexual experience with a guy until after my mission, so I didn't I didn't know the lane I was gonna take, and I think even in the era that I grew up, how old are you? Uh 35 okay, I'm 42, so a little older, but like the 90s like just didn't have any space for you to be out, and then obviously the Mormon church did not really have space for you to be out, it wasn't talked about, you know, and then I think it became an issue after my mission with like prop 8 in California and stuff. But I I just sort of decided I was going to like lean into the band and like being an artist because I could hide there, like I could I could dress a little weird or I could like be into music attacking me, like yes, or thinking, oh, he's gay.

Moving To Provo To Start Neon Trees

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Like it was more like hiding in that because I think a lot of people need some sort of avenue to like because again, growing up in Salt Lake City, Utah, it was everywhere, and I didn't realize it was everywhere until I left. And it wasn't until because like I was never really active in like middle school, high school. Then I saw my friends doing it, my family like wanted me to go, so I went, sure, and then come back and I was in college, and like that was a roller coaster for me of like in out, in out, yes, no, yes, no. But it wasn't until I moved to Seattle where it was like blank space, there is no um influence, do whatever you need to. Here's this other way to experience it, where it's like, okay, I'm just gonna like put it in its like box for now and just experience life, and kind of give me that like lack of like societal familial pressure and just funny enough.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

Moving to Utah was that for me. Like, I let's talk about that. Yeah, my parent influence. Yeah. Well, so my guitar player Chris, who still plays in Neon Trees, um, he moved while I was on a mission to Utah. I was like, damn it.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Like I needed you.

SPEAKER_01 15:12

Yeah, and like it, I could not fathom moving to Utah to start a music career, but that's what I was doing because I Which seems so counterintuitive from being in Southern California, like we're going to Provo. Especially, this is years before I think maybe the killers had popped off, but like they weren't necessarily associated with like Utah, like maybe with Brandon a little bit, but you know, like they had they were from Vegas, and like yeah, so it was a different thing. But I it made no sense. I was like, We're in California, like we're close to LA, like we need to be near the industry, like whatever I thought was that at the time. And and so I moved there to like move to Provo to just kind of buy time and like in my mind go, like, I'm gonna bring Chris back and we'll start the band. But but he like Valor was being built the like month I moved there and it was like just finishing. And so before that, it was just me's music, which I had been familiar with a little bit, was a venue on that block where Balor is now. Um, and when we would take like other brothers on missions, we would come up as a family to Provo, and like so I I knew Provo a little bit in like that cursory, like college town way, but like not really like anything other than that. And I moved into a house immediately was just like it had no purpose other than like we're playing music and and and we got a show at a bowling alley that doesn't exist anymore. Um and we walked in because we all looked like we played in a band, but we hadn't even like started writing like songs as Neon Trees. And the guy was like, Are you the band? And we're like, No, but we can be. He's like, Well, I got a slot on Saturday, it was like four days later. Yeah, but we literally hunkered down and like wrote like seven songs and like learned a radio head cover, and just um like it was a mix of like songs I'd written on my mission, songs we'd written before I'd left on it, and then we were like a five piece band instantly. Um and then from there we just and we were I'm sure we were shitty, but like had I'm sure we had glimmers, like we'd brought 75 people our first show, which is huge.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Nothing that's especially in like that time of the year before dude, before like anything, yeah, like it was MySpace, I think.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

Yeah, probably. Um and then from there we just would play. And I met Corey Fox from Valor, and he was just opening, and he has he had a real like sense of wanting to curate. I don't know how much he does now. I think he still does, but like he was very gatekeepy for for lack of a better word, with who he wanted to play at his venue. Which you can't fault him, like no, I get it, I get it now.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

Like And it's nice to be on like that side of the gatekeeping, you know? Because I have friends that were in vans that were not included in the last thing you want to do is be like, hey Cory, like here's my friend through like I'm barely making the cut. Like sure, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Um he had just a belief in this early on. Yeah, what I value from Provo, and like what was really surprising was how many kids wanted like no one was I mean, I'm sure people were experimenting with things, but not in my periphery, and like I wasn't at the time.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

What do you mean by that? Like, what do you feel like you were doing that was so different at the time?

SPEAKER_01 18:20

I wasn't doing drugs and I wasn't drinking, that was um, and I wasn't you know, I was going on Craigslist and trying to find gay hookups, I will be honest with you. But that was and that was a fun time sneaking on my friend's uh laptop thinking he wouldn't see it history, and then later when I came out, he's like, Yeah, I knew you were like secret. Um, but that's another thing. But yeah, we weren't participating in like like drugs and and drinking and stuff, so like the party scene was going to Valor and seeing bands play, and it became like a real scene, and I think it was rare. You wouldn't have found that in Temecula where I came from, or like probably even in LA, because it was that's such a huge city, it was very specific, and it really let like bands and kids start bands and be artists and like cut their teeth, and like get get a crowd of 300-350 kids come and like make it feel like an event. And I I owe so much gratitude to those early salad days in Provo because they really like allowed us years to really build like a sound and just like play four times a week around in the different venues or yeah, try different things, see what works.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

It was and like with you, if you're not playing, you're probably in there listening and just being like, Well, this guy sucks.

SPEAKER_01 19:33

Yeah, I work I'm working at as a door guy sometimes, like at Muse and stuff. So it was like just it allowed you to romanticize something during that time in your life. I mean, you're it was I'm 21, 22, you know.

Touring Hard And Getting Signed

SPEAKER_00 19:46

So well, I love that you have this like you have this awakening in like your teens of being like, I love music. I mean, what a great time to like love music. Yeah, you go on your mission where it's like, okay, kind of like detour from that mentally, spiritually, emotionally, however you want to talk about it. But then it's like almost as soon as you come back, it's like this light switch back. Yeah, you're like, okay, Chris is now in prov. Chris, Chris, Chris is in provo now. I want to bring him back, so I'm gonna go there. But then you find this world that like allows you to again not just have this one person you can experience it in, but this whole kind of like micro community within this like juxtaposition of that community within it.

SPEAKER_01 21:12

It's true, and it yeah, and I met I met people that I like that have still like Dallin Weeks, who played in The Brobex and played in Panic at the Disco and does uh I don't know how and he's created his own thing. And obviously Dan Reynolds uh was going to B O A U, and there was just all this stuff simultaneously happening, and um, you know, I realize I'm in my 40s and I can r romanticize that time in my life, but it really was like special. I you know, I I would hope it still is like that. I I don't go down there anymore, really. Like I've I've I go that you know to support occasionally, but um it feels very far away, but it it truly was a cool little time. Yeah. Um during that during that era.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

So during that era, you're I mean playing, you're experimenting, you're figuring out what you your sound looks like, you're with these new guys, yeah. Just again dressing to be in a band to the point someone's like, hey, you as a band? Like you can't be.

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Yeah, we just looked cool or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

And then I mean, going from where you were basking in um or husky. Wait, what's the term? Why did I just forget that? Were you playing on streets?

SPEAKER_01 22:16

Oh, in Temecula. Wait, busking? Yeah, busking, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Yeah, where you're like busking into Mecula, and then where you can like see people like, oh, like I can tell that like I made an impact on this person, on this person. I mean, at what point did you make that next step where you're like, hey guys, I think we're on to something bigger than just yeah, the Valor and Provo?

SPEAKER_01 22:34

It um it was like regional touring. Like my our guitar player Chris bought a like a shuttle bus. Yes, like an airplane shuttle bus, and like honestly lived in it for a while too. But he just provided that, and we we would go like you know, St. George, Idaho, Nevada, and like start touring, and then you you meet other like bands that are like small that are kind of budding, and um, and you're building a my we're building a MySpace following and and a pure volume following. And our bassist, um Brandon Campbell, um, had grown up with Ronnie from The Killers, and they obviously became one of like the big bands on Earth, you know, and um it was around 2008 when um there were some slots to open for them, and Ronnie came and saw us play in Vegas at like again, like a bowling alley or something, and there were 10 people there, but like really like early days when especially in like in Provo, we were bringing maybe three, four hundred people, but like in Vegas, like no one and he just clocked that we were playing like we were playing for 10,000 people and saw something in us and offered us like just a couple opening slots for some killer shows, and they were pivotal shows because it it was the same shows that um David Massey, who is a legend in Music Heap, signed Oasis and um Good Charlotte and the Jonas Brothers, and like he's like a storied guy. He was going to those shows and he ended up um signing us after like the second uh show in San Francisco um and offering us a deal for uh Mercury Records at the time, which was Island and Universal and um it didn't It didn't come quick because, you know, we had uh ostensibly started in two thousand five. So, you know, two thousand end of two thousand eight, it was a good three years of truly eat eat, sleeping, and breathing.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

Which is how a lot of people don't realize that's how it is. Yeah. Like in the age of social media and TikTok and Instagram There, I mean, now you could get but like those that's like the exception, not the rule, I would argue. Yeah, no, I and like I always love the quote from I believe it's Tyler the Creator where he's like, just keep putting stuff out there. Yeah, like upload it, post it, do whatever. Do never know who's watching, who's listening, and it will happen, just like you. I mean, you're in Vegas performing at a bowling alley, right? And one of those ten people happens to be one of the most influential people that can take your career together.

Collaboration And The Writing Process

SPEAKER_01 25:06

I have to remind myself that still, like, because I I still will get caught up in the curation of it. Um, and that might just be because I came from a time where people did listen to albums in full and like cared more about that. And I think presentation is cute, but like I agree with that quote from him where it's just like it really is true, just you gotta just keep throwing things out and people will latch to something. Yeah, um, and we've seen that now, like in the era we live in now, but um, but yeah, no, it was cool, and like it it sent us right into like um moving to LA and writing and then recording a record and um so you finally got Chris back to LA, Southern California? I did, yeah, we did. Uh there was a period of time where we moved there to try to be close to like some some industry peers, and then um I am skipping like a part where there was a band called Sugar Call. Do you remember the that's a pop punk band? Yes. They were they were hot at a moment, and and the singer also simultaneously um had us open for them, and he ended up recording our first record. He was he produced our whole first album, and really like I mean, the songs like Animal and Everybody Talks, and like those those jams that we're sort of known for, um are things that I wrote with him. So like he's a big component of our story too. And he he had us open for him just because he liked a t-shirt that he saw, and it was like the show was in Six George, and we're like, he's like drive down. So it was like little things were happening, but again, to your point, and to like what we were just talking about, like it is just getting out there and taking every opportunity, and like the version of that in you know 2007, 2008 was like playing any show possible and and just always showing up.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

And I'm always curious about that with I mean bands, especially where I mean there's five of you, all of you have your part to play in it, but when it comes to I mean, the writing music, the creating of music, were you the one that was leading a lot of like the creative process, or was it a lot more collaborative? I know it's different band by person by person.

SPEAKER_01 27:08

It was way more collaborative when we were sort of a band in a van. Um once you know, and I always steered the ship. I was always writing the lyrics and the melodies, and and but we were in there really like shedding. Yeah. Um but I think once we started getting into recording, like I really steered it even more, and it became more collaborative with our producer. And um these days it's like I I feel like I feel like I'm grateful that we are in a place as a group that are we're really ego list. I mean, we always are still like we're artists, so we're going to like to know be rubbed the wrong way sometimes, but like we've really like I would say for at least 10 years now, like really learn like learned how we operate as a band and what works great.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

And because have you guys all been together, like the same five of you the entire time?

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Yeah, same that's same for um our basist. Uh we've moved off the road for for things. Um, but yeah, same same group. Which is impressive. Like that doesn't happen. No, it doesn't. It is a point of pride. Yeah, yeah. It it is cool. Um but life happens. I mean, 20 years ostensibly as a band is it's a lot of um I mean they're my relation, they're my love relationship, basically. I don't really have you know the husband or wife experience, it it's been them.

SPEAKER_00 28:28

So that's so cool. Yeah, and I like that you shared the part about like the sugar cult of like having someone there because again, like the more that you go through like these upper echelons of things, it's harder to find people that can relate and like add value to what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

It's true.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

Um, but I'm curious about him and like other people that you found along the way that I mean helped guide that path.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Totally. I I will say, like, I think it was a product of the time we were raised in, but like it was also kind of pervasive at the time to to co-write or or f have another songwriter outside of the band in it. Almost sometimes uh was like a I I don't believe it, but it was a bullshit sort of narrative of like you're selling out, or this isn't pure, or did you write your own shit? And it's like what I found, and what is now sort of the norm, and actually like I think what a most artists lean on is is finding like that collaborator or that person that can get the things out of you um that maybe you can't on your own, you know. And I I am a songwriter and I can pick up a guitar and and take a day and write a song, but but I what I find more advantageous is finding those people that speak your language and and that collaboration is so fun, and then very picking sounds and making a beat, and we're assembling together. And I still own my point of pride is my lyrics and melodies, so I I want that to be pure and I want it to come from me. And um, so rarely is there somewhere, someone in the room like you know, um writing for me, but often it's like, oh maybe what if you like it's just little things, and but there is that like trust relationship, and um it's only served us for the best, you know.

Success Without Chasing Fame

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Well, even when I was watching the uh Taylor Swift documentary about the Ares Tour, like yeah, because like I don't like she's someone who like I'm not the biggest Taylor Swift person, Shawn of a catchy song, whatever, but it was interesting seeing her creative process where it's been her and I don't know their names, but the same two guys that they go disappear, and I mean she's the one I mean Jack and Aaron and then and then Max Martin, who she made this less record with, yes, which was in the that doc. Yeah, yeah. And it was interesting to be like, is she a singer songwriter? Yes, but you have to surround yourself with the right people that inspire you that, like, yeah, if you have to get from A to C, they can help make that logical connection to B so you can get to C.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

And like, and again, it's not like, hey, ghostwrite this, I'll go sing it, or like, oh, I don't know what I'm doing. You get it 90% there, I'll come fine-tune. But it really is finding those right people. And again, like those right people. Like, it's not like anybody can go do it, or well, I need someone who has experienced singing or writing music. It's like, no, no, no, you understand my energy, you understand my vibe, you understand the context and environment. I need you to succeed, you know how my brain works. Let's lock it and do it.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Well, and I think we've seen that in like all kinds of forms of art as we've I at least as I've gotten older and more exposed to the behind the scenes things, but it's like you can't make a film on your own. You can't write a you you could I guess you could write a book on your own, but you still need sort of that there's always been from the dawn of time that that thing where like that that collaboration elevates things and like I don't know, I feel like takes it, takes it further. I think I think it's important.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

So yeah, and speaking of taking it further, so you so you get signed. I mean, the dream of anybody who ever starts in a big thing.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

Which was the dream, by the way. And like it truly was get a record deal, which was so hot and sexy in the 90s and 2000s. Like that was that was the band. And then it was just to be able to tour. Like everything else did not matter to me. Like, I didn't I didn't think you know, I listened to bands that took like three or four records to get to like a place where maybe they even had notoriety. Like, so I wasn't expecting a radio song or um anything like that instantly. It was more like the just the access to like, oh, we get to make an album and like go tour it. How exciting! Like that. That was the stuff that mattered to me. Like, even fame, like I've from the beginning, fame has not ever been the the thing that I wanted to attain. It was it was success, right? Like it was so if you were popular, like connecting, then there would be a degree of like notoriety, but it was never like I want to be the the most famous guy in the world or like the most adored thing. It would that has never been like a sent a central thing for me.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

I mean, if you could look back from again like being in your 40s now, looking back, or even thinking about who you were there, how would you have defined success then?

SPEAKER_01 33:06

Again, like it would have been um we we sold out that coffee shop that we played in St. George, and um we got to have In N Out afterwards. And or or yeah, or the killers think we're cool and are allowing us to open for them. Yeah. Or we have a van that we can hop in, even though it's a shitty shuttle bus, like, and we can go, I can go to Idaho and Nevada and St. George and Salt Lake and play four shows in a weekend or something. Because that that small potatoes kind of.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

Because that's what I love about it, because like so many people, when they're creating something, feel like they're of this, these like grandiose goals of success. Because success is amazing, which is amazing, and like there's that, but then there's also like enjoying the journey, but also realizing like, I mean, so many people are so incentivized by like, oh, I want to be famous, I want to be rich. But in reality, it's like once you reach those, like, what next? But then also realizing like there's so much more joy in the process of like I created a song that I saw someone sing every word to on the front row for the first time and being like, Yes, holy shit, like that just happened.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Or like being able to be like, hey, I have an album that people tour, like people want me to sign, like not and like not necessarily saying the fame side of things, but being like, I impacted these people's lives in a way.

Big Tours And Industry Lessons

SPEAKER_01 34:23

Right. Like there's going to be byproducts of success. So, like, yes, I'd rather I my experience with fame is it's been being famous in certain circles, certain maybe places I go. It's to be expected, but I I've I've never I've never gone after like buying followers on Instagram to grow the thing or to buy likes, or I've never wanted the like not being able to go like the Kim Kardashian or Taylor Swift fame experience. It's and like I've had taste of that when we've been at peaks, but um it's just not it's never been the driving force, and it's good because I feel like I with our career we had five or six years of like the ceiling kept getting higher and higher, so the the degree of success kept changing. Um but I look at it and I've always maintained like and it's so nice now that we have a career where like we can tour, we have we have a fan base, people show up, and we can put out records. And of course, you know, it's fun to hear your song in something or on something. Um but I think those days have changed in the industry too. Like it's it's to tell you what from like 2009 to six 2016 to like now what it is, is it's just two different um worlds almost. Um so it I think it's kept me grounded in in the fact. I I would say living in Salt Lake has kept me grounded. Like, um, you know, I can leave all the time, but like it's kept there's something like small lake city, there's something very like small and quaint and and down the earth about living here.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Yeah, no, I totally agree. That's what I love about it. And so I want to talk about so you you get signed in like this is when things start to take off.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:15

And I'm curious of like, I mean, what that felt like as someone who just I mean was watching MTV and seeing music videos and aligning with that to now being like, I'm touring, people know my music, and like I mean, I just imagine I can't remember who it was, but they were talking about like the first time they were on stage, yeah, and seeing like not just people like hearing a song, being like, Oh, I like this, like I can like like bob along to this, whatever, but like knowing every word, every song, or like just like I mean, for lack of a better word, like that hysteria behind it.

SPEAKER_01 36:43

Yeah, like it it went from like we our first real national tour was with 30 Seconds to Mars and Mute Math um in 2010. And and I I was a fan of Mute Math, I was not a fan of Mars, um, but it was an opportunity, and they have such a huge it's just Jared Leto, like they're gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 37:04

I went to uh actually one of my favorite band shirts is a 30 seconds to Marshirt, but I too am not a 30 seconds of Mars fan. But and I because I went because I partnered with Live Nation for a lot of shows and stuff. Oh, sure, okay. It's actually Taylor Brody who introduced us. Okay, cool. Yeah, because I did a giveaway for tickets, run it through the like comment picking thing, and it was him I was like, Hey man, like you win. He's like, Well, do you want to go with me? I was like, sure.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

It's very sure. Yeah, it's like sure, yeah, and it was fun, like whatever, but yeah, yeah, that's that's that's yeah, it was an opportunity though, and like we were nobodies, like we had a song, we had Animal out at the at Alt Radio, and you know, Island was pushing it, and at the time, like the iTunes store was the thing, it wasn't Spotify yet, and and we had like the featured single of the week, so there were like things that were really pushing us, and it felt for the first like we had a video on MTV and VH1, and like that still mattered still early.

SPEAKER_00 37:56

Like there was enough like breadcrumbs that things were starting to feel very real and then this national tour, and so we're opening up and we're getting in front of these big crowds.

Coming Out And Public Mormon Tension

SPEAKER_01 38:04

And um I remember it went from like the because we did two legs with them. The first leg, you know, Jared was really like nice and approachable and gave us like the bus code, and like for his bus, we were in a fucking van still, and like um, you know, he's like, if you guys want to use our bikes, like very like very cool in the way of like I we're I recognize you're young, so I'm gonna like be a nice guy, but then Animal like really got legs, and by by the fall, like it was number one at alternative. It taken like 43 weeks to get there, and so we were like really having a moment, and like I remember we had to not play one of the shows because we got an opportunity to play the tonight show, and like wow, so things started like budding, and I noticed a shift with Jared. Like, I just noticed there was all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_00 38:56

It went from like, hey little brother, I know it was like to like competition almost.

SPEAKER_01 39:00

Yeah, and it was and it it was a it was a lesson to be like you could be Jared Leto, you could be like ostensibly one of the most good looking like guys, and uh at the time. And I know now he's gone on to like be a little more creepy, but uh it was a lesson of like you're Jared Leto, you're like you're in 30 seconds tomorrow's why are you jealous of like a little moment that a little band's having, you know? Um and I'm fine to talk about this because he's a jackass, but it was an opportunity, and then it kept coming. And then we opened for my chemic romance on their last tour before they disbanded for a while, and like Maroon 5, Taylor Swift, um, and then we started headlining our own shows, and and so it was just and then the next record came out and had everybody talks on it, and that blew us through. And then the next record I came out, and so that was a huge like turning point in our career and it sort of our visibility because it gave like a personality piece to us. And when I came out, I was more still Mormon, and so I the the writer from Rolling Stone, can't Karen Gans, came out to Pleasant Grove where I was living in an apartment, and this was 2013, and she did a whole story about how I still wanted to be gay, but wanted to be Mormon, and and when I feel like that's such a part of so many gay Mormons story.

SPEAKER_00 40:25

I mean, even like David Archelletta is the one who's like going around right now, and like even personal friends of mine, it's like okay.

SPEAKER_01 40:30

It's funny to watch not funny, I I totally respect David, and I'm I've gotten to know him a little bit, but like when I when I left the church and came out, it was like 2014 to 2016. By 2016, I had left in sort of a fiery way, and now I'm watching David do the same thing, and it's like good, like he needs to he needs to talk about it and get it out of him.

Faith Crisis And Making An Excommunication Record

SPEAKER_00 40:51

Which is like one thing I love about going through faith crisis, especially Mike Mormon Faith Crisis, like if I sit down at a bar and talk to someone, like, oh, you're Mormon, like, no, you used to be like me too, like within five minutes, you're like You're bonded almost. I know it's a language, but then there's people who I mean, after I because like I was starting kind of my faith crisis when I was seeing you go through yours. Oh my god, okay. And there was kind of like this like I wanted to defend the church and so much of it, but then I saw you, I was like, Well, like I get where they're coming from, and like and so it was if there's like this cognitive dissonance and like so many things I was putting on like my proverbial shelf during that time, yeah. And it's interesting, like once you go through your faith crisis, and like it's always like these little breadcrumbs of like, oh, I'll post a beer on my story, or like I'm at a bar, and like someone will be like, Hey man, like I'm having questions too. Yeah, you're like happy to talk, happy to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 41:39

Remember how scared you were to talk about it sometimes, though. Like, even I, and so like even little creeping doubts or things, because you know, I came out, but I was I had aligned myself it publicly in a major publication that I was still gonna try to be Mormon. And of course, that's really naive, right? Because like I didn't know what what what I was up against. I just knew I believe these things, they're they're good to me, and I'm having an experience of joy, so I'm not feeling I'm not feeling the pushback right away that other people might have.

SPEAKER_00 42:14

And it's the same process a lot of people go through, but just kind of like in a subtly stronger way, where like it's like when people either like, oh, I can fix this, or like I can like it's fine, like I can be part of the change.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

And so in the same way, it's like, okay, an example gay, but like I can still be this person to help fix this because I still feel that there's this good from this, and yes, like I see good people and good things, right? Until then there's like that point of like almost desperation, like, oh, just kidding, I can't.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

Well, yeah, and that was the defeating part where I think when I did leave the church, I did it in a record, and I did it through art, and I did it through visuals, and I I was writing a solo record at the time with with Island Records. So David Massey would signed us, you know. We Neon Trees had put out three albums, and we sort of were taking tiny as tiatus. We were still active and in playing.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

We've been doing so much for so long, it's like a slight break.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

Yeah, no, I was consciously gonna make a solo record. I didn't know what that meant. I didn't know if that was gonna like be I'm leaving the band and I am now Beyonce, you guys are. Yeah, whoever. But and so I was writing songs, but when I was simultaneously going through this true like rejection feeling, the church had put out a policy that was enacted in in handbooks in like late 2015.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Is that the I think you're like you're the child of a gay you have to reject your parents' lifestyle to get baptized at 18.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

It it classified it, it just it felt like it doubled down and and really made it transparent how the church feels about gay people. And before then it was kind of still amorphous, and like unless at least for me it was amorphous. I can't speak for everyone, I'm sure people I know people were affected by it earlier. Um, but that really was like the nail in the coffer for me. And like because I had been so public trying to support the church through every interview before I even came out, we were associated as the LDS band, you know, in we're in France. All they know at the time about Salt Lake is is Mormons and polygamy, like thinking they know anything about Salt Lake or Utah. So we were always associated with it, and we would stick up for it. We would you know at the time, and I I just felt like backstabbed almost, like I thought so much so hard to like for this thing that had no room for me from the beginning and like rejected me. And uh, it allowed me almost in a weekend to look at everything I'd ever questioned, and there's the internet, and there's podcasts, and there's Reddit, and like it was the most freeing and scary thing ever because I was like free-falling for the first time. And I remember that it was exhilarating, but also like if I had I can see and how do I say this? I can see like how people fall into rabbit holes because once you start to uncover, like, oh, that's not true, and that was made up, or that was um I believed in that, and that clearly wasn't the truth. Like, you start to go, what else have I been like? And then you know, by the end of the weekend, I was an atheist. Like, I I was just like, Well, nothing's real, and I have to stop here, or I'm gonna become a conspiracy.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

Next thing you know, you're like the strongest.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

I was watching 9-11 videos, and like, yeah, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

Well, because like I remember that with me too, because like I went almost in like a week or two, because like going back to my semi-story was yeah, go to Seattle, have like correct, like space from it all, experience my things, and like it was even one of those, like my like partner at the time, she was like, Oh, I've never really like smoked or tried weed before. I'm like, Well, that's gotta happen. Yeah, and then next thing I know, I'm like a happy hour, I'm like, Yeah, yeah, we're drinking again. Yeah, and then I come back to Salt Lake and was working at a place where it's like very LDS, like the Monday morning meetings we had, it was like, Oh, would you learn at church yesterday? And yeah, I would realize I'm like, I have to draw my own line in the sand and like put this to bed forever. And so it's the same thing, like you start looking at Reddit, you start Googling, you start looking at CES Letter, like things like that. And all of a sudden, like within two weeks, I'm like, Well, and it's like it's so weird to have that like red pill moment where it's like you just like almost dissociate because like Everything that you've thought you knew doesn't exist anymore, and going from like omniscience, eternity down to like, oh, I guess it's me and this, and that and also the amount of shame I had at that point that I was carrying around because I was like, Yeah, I'm happy to be out finally, and I you know, I was dating a person publicly, and like it felt good.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

And like my parents received me well, like my family was the dude's one, yeah. It was beautiful, but like I still carried so much guilt because I was like, I'm never gonna be the guy that's gonna drag the church or like blame God or whatever narrative. Like, I I had wholeheartedly believed I was the one given the challenge, and I was choosing to indulge in that because I needed happiness. Um and the relinquishing of that, like the minute I was like, oh wait, that's made up. I don't even have to like it was like it was like the highest of highs. Like I I love weed and and mushrooms and stuff. I it's I've never felt higher and more exhilarated um than relinquishing that shame. Yeah. And that was what making that music was about and making those music videos, and like I know it was salacious and I knew it was like going to like offend people when I was doing temple signs, and like but I was doing it through real pain and art, and I I wasn't bel if you can believe me, I wasn't doing it just to shock. Like it truly was a an a true expression of what I was feeling in real time.

SPEAKER_00 48:00

Well, and it's like an I my own, like I mean again, like faith crisis story of like getting to that, like the person I am today, was so intense, it was so intimate. There's only like a handful of people that were like there for me during that journey, and like for everybody else, is like as far out as could be.

SPEAKER_02 48:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:17

And to get to that, like to to experience that in like my own bubble was one thing, and like like broke me in so many different ways, but to do that in a place where it's like so public, and having gone from being like the Mormon band and defending it to like Rolling Stone magazine to music videos, and like hat like that's such a different like uh load to bear, like carry through it all.

SPEAKER_01 48:45

That was the thing, too, is like you know, I think most gay men and women, queer people are are told like the scariest thing is to come out to your friends and family because you don't want them to think of you differently. That was scary in and of itself, but the acceptance that I got from the people in my life was amazing. It was when I left the church that I saw the real cracks and like who was there for me and who wasn't, like who got spooked by that and couldn't hang anymore. Even in within my family, it like it it it like my older brother and I didn't speak for a year, and like my mom was really scared, and we are all great now, and like since have like as a family like left and like really strong together, but it it was way more of a process announcing that I didn't believe in the church anymore, and probably in the way I did it was a lot, but um but to be the person you are that is inherently very artistic and very like thoughtful about that, yeah, and especially to think of like because it's one thing.

SPEAKER_00 49:49

It's a gift to be able to have something like that and and be able and and write about it and express yourself about it, and especially like when you think of the strength of the emotions that you're feeling at that time and the way that you choose to express moments up like emotional feelings up until then, like it makes sense why you did it that way because it's the only way that really felt like you could.

SPEAKER_01 50:09

Yeah, because I I'd written like maybe four or five songs that were kind of just like oh, this is a solo Tyler thing, but then these things were happening to me in real time when I was making this record, and I was like, I have actual shit I can write about and and pour into, and it just the music came alive, and and it wasn't just writing catchy songs, it was like I'm I'm really pouring something into this. And I I neon trees put us on the map, it it it still is my bread and butter, it it um it still is like the most accessible thing that I've done to people and and the thing I get referenced the most for, but like more often than not, the the the most meaningful messages and the most meaningful conversations on the street I get is about that specific excommunication record. And that means a lot to me because it it was also a flop, like it didn't it didn't cut through in a pop way that maybe the label wanted because at that point I was like I don't even I don't know even thinking about a single at radio like I'm I'm making a record that means everything to me um so it has gone on in the last 10 years to have a life and a meaning and a purpose and that that gives me again like goes back to my fame was never the center, you know, it's those those real meaningful things that I know and and it like the thing about the church is like there are always people leaving it, like it almost is like people graduating from high school, like so constantly people are discovering that album or referenced it like oh you're leaving or you're going through this faith thing, like you need to hear this. Um, so it's a constant, like recurring thing in my life, which is really, really cool. And I feel far from it, yeah. The pain of it.

SPEAKER_00 51:57

Well, it's like, and I love the way that you phrase that because again, like even going back to like definition of success and what that means, and also like that intimate communication or that intimate um connection that comes with like experiencing that faith crisis, yeah, to have something that can be such a big dot on people's map of how to explore that. Like, that is again like you could have the breadth that you've experienced of I mean, popularity, exposure of like neon trees, and as soon as everybody talks comes on, I mean everybody is yeah, it's a jam. Like it's but then you have this like extreme depth of this album where it's like, yeah, maybe a few thousand, tens of thousands of whatever the number is, really listened to it, understood it, and accepted it, but it meant the world to them.

LoveLoud And The Fight For Support

SPEAKER_01 52:39

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And it it's only influenced my writing in in the trees since then, too, and it only has like affected it. And like, you know, successful side quest. Yeah, no, it's great, and like my you know, it's been beautiful. Like my drummer, and I'm not speaking for her because she's been public about it, but she she's been through her own journey with faith and sexuality and just came out uh last year, and she's been married for three years, the love of her life, and and she's a little older than me, and and she she watched me go through it and and wasn't there for me when I when I was, but I was able to be there for her, and we have we have created such a different like um base to our friendship and our and our career and like who we are, and there's so much more room to be free, even in the band. Um so it's been it's been a really sweet journey, yeah. I will say.

SPEAKER_00 53:37

I don't know why like my brain keeps going to so watched heated rivalry like a month or two ago. Okay. And the first time I stopped started watching, I was like, what did I get myself into? Sure. I mean but then by the end, I'm like I'm like wiping my tears away. And like, because like I have a lot of gay family, especially like my cousin and his boyfriend live up in Portland, and like he came out in the 90s, and yeah, like that's a whole nother story of like how kind of the family rejected him, but now it's come full circle towards accepting, and like yeah, so it's it's it's interesting to see the people who have experienced or like been on the sidelines for the people experiencing it. It's it's intimate, like also like with your drummer, like paves the road for her to be like, hey, actually, like I want to talk to you about this.

SPEAKER_01 54:15

She she felt safe and I and I was able to be like years away from my experience with it and the painful side of it, and go like you owe no one anything, like you don't have you don't even have to announce it if you don't want to, like, you know, take the pressure off. It is your life. Um, and a lot of that informed Love Loud, like yeah, it's a good thing. You know, that's a nice segue because it um I would say as much as I'm proud on on a kind of a mainstream or global thing with what I've been able to do with my band, what I've been able to like influence Salt Lake with, I think my my extension has been Love Loud and like um being a vocal point for a lot of disenfranchised youth men and women that like experienced faith and felt rejection, and that's where Love Loud was birthed. You know, um Dan Reynolds from Imagine Dragons was given this opportunity to do like a documentary in 2017, and um and he and I had been friends, but also like he had felt guilt because he didn't feel like he had really been there for me when I was publicly going through what we just talked about with the church and sort of my coming out and leaving. And he'd called me and and we started just like brainstorming about like what if we did like a festival. You know, this is 2017, so I think festivals were like definitely a norm, but they weren't maybe as saturated as they are even now, right? But um, you know, we we weren't talking about at the beginning was just like how hard it is to get support, let alone like to just put on a a music festival that's palatable to anyone is hard, but then to do a niche-fied version where it's like this is in support of of disenfranchised LGBT people that that need a place to feel accepted because of the rejection of the church or rejection of their families, like that's a tall order. And we did it in Oram the first year at the ballpark there by EV UVU, and um it was so fraught, like the way just people even talked about it is actually reminiscent of how people talk about it now, and we can get into to why because of the current administration and there's a lot of red tape again, but it was such a miracle to get 20,000 people to come down to like Happy Valley or or out in Happy Valley, and like and we were not shying away, like we've we definitely had speakers talking about Mormonism, and like then we had you know, my band perform and Imagine Dragons performed, and um Walk uh Nick from Walk the Moon came out, and like um there were other a couple other artists that Corella did a DJ set, like this is back in you know 2017, so that era, and but it was a 20,000 attended um small stadium show in support of LGBT people, and it was a miracle. And then we did it again at Rice Eccles the next year, and it was even bigger, and like Mike Shinoda from the uh Lincoln Park came out and um cash headline the next year, and like and it's always been true to what our mission statement was to just provide unabashed like love and support to LGBT people, um, especially within faith, and that's what differentiated us. It wasn't it wasn't just another pride event, uh, which is beautiful. We need so many of those invisibility is so important, but like Love Loud was birthed from me and Dan's uh religious trauma and like experience, and so it's there's a real heart and soul there, and we're 10 years into it, and 2027's gonna be our tenure, and we're hoping to do like a nice big Salt Lake City return. But it it's really hard because DEI has been stripped, um and the mask really came off with this. I won't get too political, but the like the mask really came off with the second term. Um and it came off with a lot of like the corporations that were really supportive in the past and now like are like, oh like we're allowed to not be allies, where it was like the cool thing to do, and now it's like we're really in need again. I think a lot of not just queer organizations, but women's organizations and obviously um you know minority groups as well. Like, I think there's just even more red tape to get through. So we're not doing an event this year because it's it's hard. And it's you think like, oh, like it's Dan from Imagine Dragons, it's like Tyler from Neon Trees, it's like they've done these big events at Delta Center, like rice cycles, what are how is it not feasible? And it's like we are a foundation that you know needs support from from deep pockets, yeah, you know, to put on put on these events.

SPEAKER_00 59:23

And that's been the hardest part of I think again, like with the recent administration and especially like I felt it like last pride of just like, oh, we don't have to do this anymore, it's not cool to do it anymore. Uh huh. Oh, never mind.

SPEAKER_02 59:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:35

And like it's it's kind of sad to see the people who did it because they thought people wanted it, which is like such a corporate facade in so many ways.

SPEAKER_01 59:43

But I mean, as a gay person, like I we would feel it every June, like time to change our fucking bank has a rainbow, yeah, like decal now cool thanks, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:55

But yeah, I mean it's but like I think the hardest thing about it recently is like and like Dave Chappelle talked about in like the stand-up, he got a ton of like strife for where he's like, hey, like trans people, like I hear you, I see you, but we're not even to where we want to be with black people yet. And like, so even like with this last year, it's like, oh, like people don't even see women as equals, and like black people as trans people, and like to be like, okay, we need to make sure everybody's accepted. It's like we are so much further behind than we thought.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:22

There's so much work, and it's it's also trans people are one percent of the population and just trying to like exist, and yet they have been made the boogeyman, and oh yeah, you know, and I I've it's cyclical. I I've lived long enough to see like from the 80s and 90s with AIDS and gay men, and then it's like what can we make? What can we other who's the new boogeyman? It's easy to make the boogeyman, and that is trans people, and it's um there is so much more work, and uh you know, it's it's complicated. It's like sometimes I understand the LGBT community is a force stronger together, but yet as a just as a cis gay white man who's also ex-Mormon and living in Salt Lake, I have my own set of obstacles and like and the pool is really small, and um there is a lot of specificity that and nuance that sometimes it feels like we're not allowed to to even talk about publicly, like especially online, without it being rest of getting clipped or or getting misunderstood. And so I think there like to your point, there's so much work to be done in in all groups and minority groups, and yet it it seems like the purpose of this administration is to like villainize all of these groups.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:46

Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm in that same light though, I'm very excited for next year. Because I mean, if you have to take a year off from this, it means you have another year for that. Yeah, and I mean it's been fun to see. Like, I remember the first time I heard of Love Loud was when uh I went to Silicon Slopes, I think it was 2019 when Dan spoke about it. Yeah, and like because I'd like seen I mean posts about it or like stories over the years and like didn't necessarily know what it was, yeah. And then hearing him talk about it and like even him owning up to being like, well, it's an interesting then because I remember him saying, like, there's people I wish I could have stood up for. Yeah, and so it's interesting hearing you now being like, hey, we're one of those people.

Utah Artists Worth Watching

SPEAKER_01 1:02:21

I was, and he he says that like he's very vocal about that, especially at our Love Lot events. I think he's always been sort of uh conscious of not wanting to be like, I'm the the big straight, dumb white guy speaking for all of you. Like he's very deferential when it comes to like the needs, and and I I feel like my I am not the money guy, I'm not the guy that's gonna enter the room and like raise funds, but I am a I am a storyteller and I'm an empath, and I I think I my purpose in Love Loud and on the board is to retain that heartbeat and soul and like reason why we do it. And like we often talk about LGBT youth when we use phrases and language, and I'm I'm always like, I'm not fucking young anymore, and I still need these resources. Like I need to feel empowered because I I will go home in my apartment in downtown Salt Lake, and some nights I'm lonely as hell, and um and the shadow of the temple being rebuilt is there, and I'm I'm thinking too hard. Like I I've done a lot of work and like I've healed a lot and Love Lot has been a part of that, but I I also you know feel sometimes small and and and I know if me who get access to travel and tour and and and all the things that I've been able to like do and see, if I'm feeling if I am have the ability to still feel small at this level and the in this age in my life, then the 12-year-old kid in Ogden that needs it, needs that support or is being rejected by their family, like obviously that's hyperbole, but like those things exist.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:00

You know, yeah, they're not they don't happen in in nothingness, and it's yeah more common than any of us would like to believe.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:07

Yeah, we want to do like a also, you know, we we understand you have to like you have to like change with the times too, right? And so like I think Love Loud wants to do something where it's almost like South by Southwest where we do like a takeover and really like shine a light on local bars and restaurants as well, and like make it like you could go see Perfume Genius play at um Whitehorse or you know, hypothetically but like kind of like an actual like blocks takeover that's a Love Loud fest and it's maybe two days, or yeah. We have like goals because it's like sometimes is that like going to an arena or a stadium to watch seven artists play? Is that maybe the best way to to reach, you know? It's always fun to try something new and like yeah, so that's exciting, and I think coming back to Salt Lake and really making it like Salt Lake and Utah focused is is a really exciting component for us too.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

So I'm curious um from like the world you live in, the life you live, I mean, yeah, in and especially thinking of like going back to the velore and like what it was of like this launch pad for all these bands, and like it's always wild to me of looking at Utah and like the bands that have come through. I mean, everything, and like have like roots here. I mean, even like Dan Reynolds and Imagine Dragons, you the used, I mean, Cascade went to the University of Utah, like the list goes on and on and on.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:28

The aces, the aces, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:31

Yeah, aces are amazing. They were like my friend's partner was best friends with their bassist, and like so I'd always see them on the story, and then long story short, it was like at their engagement party, and like my friend got really drunk. It was like these two sides of friends trying to like be like, No, no, no, I got my friend, and like, no, no, no, I got my friend, and we had just like had like a fun night connecting. So, whenever they're in town, I always like to go see them and they're great.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:53

Oh, they're the best, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:54

Um, but I mean who else do you see on the map or like any up-and-coming Utah artists that people should pay attention to?

Who To Invite Next And Where To Follow

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

Um, I mean, I have bias. Like, I um there's a man called Pool House that had a little moment last year on TikTok. Like, I don't even know how to like gauge what little viral moments mean anymore, but like it seemed that they had like some access. And we had them open for us twice last year, like at one up at our Sol Lake show and then one up at the U. And um they're really cool and young and doing cool. They're like a band again. Like, I don't know. I I love artists, I love artists of all kinds, but there was there was a moment where it seemed like people weren't starting bands, they were more like starting artist projects and things like that, and they're they're like I think 18, night, 17, 18, 19-year-old uh kids that are like playing like their version of cool modern indie indie rock.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:49

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:50

Um, and then I'm biased too because Denny Fuller, who plays is our touring bassist now in Neon Trees, um, he plays in a sort of like Beatles-y Baroque pop outfit called the Melons, and they're really cool, and they're they're if you didn't know you'd think you were listening to like the Beach Boys or like the Beatles or something, and they're doing some cool shit. I I hate that I'm not as in touch with like the full heartbeat of the local scene, but um, but I feel like I'm still kind of out there, you know. Life evolves to discover, yeah. Give priorities, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:25

Um, anything else you want to make sure we cover?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:27

No, thank thank you for I mean, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:30

No, this has been great.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:31

I always love go to the green room. The green room's my favorite bar, and green bar in between.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:35

I went to the green room. So I we did a TikTok a couple weeks ago where it's like a bartender bar crawl where I started here and I was like, where am I going next? What am I getting? So from here to another, like I had an idea of where I was gonna go, yeah, but it was here to bar X to uh quarters to Water Witch to Green Room. Yeah, and I was like so glad to green every time I go to Green Room, the vibe.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:03

Yes. Now there's like a line at the door sometimes. It's a special spot.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

We take it back. Don't go to the green room. James, what's up? But want to wrap up with the two questions I ask everybody at the end of each episode. Uh, number one, if you had someone on the Small Lake City podcast and heard more about what they're up to in their story. Who would you want to hear from?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:24

I would say Amy Redford or Sky Emerson, who are friends of mine. Amy being the daughter of Robert Redford and like having a lot of influence in Sundance and film. But I and Skye, who's a a a screenwriter, I did a I did a short film with them last summer, and we're kind of taking it to um the festival circuits, hopefully. But we actually premiered it here and um and I I got to record a song for it at Spy Hop. Oh and I love what Spy Hop's doing. So just to shout out some Salt Lake local stuff. But I Amy's amazing, but if if you couldn't get Amy like Sky Emerson, she's incredible. She's also gone through like a a faith and sexuality journey, and she's really smart. And she's very Utah hive and very like, but but you know, I think they just got a deal with um a major studio for distribution for a film. So like they're doing cool stuff. Oh yeah, love cool people doing cool stuff. Definitely talk to them.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:20

And then lastly, if people want to keep up with you, what you're working on, um Love Loud, I mean all your other projects, what's the best place to find information?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:27

Instagram and Twitter, um Tyler and Acoma. That's a Smiths reference. Um, and then Neon Trees and Love Loud Fest uh are all the handles. And um yeah, um going on tour with the Goo Good dolls this summer, Neon Trees. So catch us out there in the in the States and yeah, Dyler.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:51

You're awesome. Like it's like I like every episode for the most part, I always think I'm like, okay, let's gonna go like this, but then I always end up having like a way better time than I I wanted to be as specific to Solica as I could, but like also I you know, I mean it's a lot of stories are tough. It's it goes around and comes back, it's it's good, but no, I'm stoked for stoked for the film to go through fest through the film festivals, stoked to go on towards Google Dolls, stoked for I mean just you in general. You're like I love the projects you keep your hands in because I know they're things that matter to you.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:23

Yeah, I have passion. Well, I know when I don't have passion because I'm kind of tuned out and I don't engage as websites.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:29

Well, like that's when because like I can tend I tend to be pretty hypercritical of like amateur music.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:34

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:34

And but like the thing that I always love is like if I show up, like the one thing that's nice about Edison House is they usually have live music Fridays and Saturdays.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:42

And but like if I see someone like this, like again, it's like that you look like you're performing for 10,000 people and there's 10 people here.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:49

If you give a fuck, you believe in it, you're like, you know what, you believe in it. Yeah, it's cool, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:54

So you are someone who gives a fuck and believes in it?

SPEAKER_01 1:10:56

I do, thank you. Thanks for noticing.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:58

No, yeah, it's hard, it's hard to not notice in the best of words.