S2, E12: Guy & Debbie Perry - Salt Lake Running Company

You can buy running shoes anywhere, but you can’t buy real guidance, community, and confidence from a dropdown menu.

We’re joined by the people behind Salt Lake Running Company, a Salt Lake City run specialty store that’s spent decades proving a simple point: service still wins. We talk about what it’s like to “wake up and go to work” for 30 years, why focus matters when everyone tells you your niche won’t work, and how a local business becomes a beacon for newcomers who want to run, hike, walk, or train for their first half marathon. Along the way we get practical about shoe fitting, gait and comfort clues, and how the right pair can change your entire relationship with running.

We also dig into what makes the running community in Utah feel different, from run clubs and local events to the way outdoor culture shapes fitness. You’ll hear how SLRC thinks about hybrid athletes, cross-training, strength work, and sustainable habits that keep you moving for life. The bigger theme is movement as a tool for wellness, mental health, and resilience, including stories of giving back through nonprofits and programs that support recovery.

If you’ve ever said “I’m not a runner,” but still want to feel better in your body, this one’s for you. Subscribe for more conversations like this, share the episode with a friend who needs a nudge to move, and leave a review with your favorite running win so others can find the show.

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Please be sure to like, review, follow, subscribe and share the podcast with your friends and family! See you next time 

Transcript

Work Ethic And Building Something

SPEAKER_06 1:31

It's just because I hate telling people I ran it and be like, yeah, I ran like a 12-minute mile.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

You wake up and go to work. You wake up and go to work. You wake up and go to work. When you're building something, you wake up and go to work. You don't think like, Do I want to go to work today? You just wake up and go to work. And 30 years go by. And then that's the story. You just wake up and go to work. So every single person around me say, like, this isn't gonna work. And I just said I I guess I said I disagree.

Recording Anywhere And Staying Private

SPEAKER_07 1:53

Someone who's had an addiction problem. We have a grant program on top of that, fit to recover, where this whole process of helping their bodies move to a point where their brain chemistry does change because of the movement instead of the drug.

SPEAKER_06 2:19

I try to only record once in a day because I've learned if I ever try to do more than one, then like by the second one, I'm like dead. Um but thankfully I like I've also done enough. I know how to like not wear myself out. Um but yeah, I just call them setup and I just hold them, like, I'm looking at myself up there in case anybody goes in there and is confused. But then there's a place on the main floor where we came in where I can record. I can record in the karaoke um room if I really need to. So like there's places and but then like I said, I mean everything's mobile, I can record anywhere as long as I have an outlet.

SPEAKER_03 2:51

Because uh one day I'll have a studio, like I've always thought about building out a studio at like my house and like having my own space. But I'm like, do I want that now?

SPEAKER_06 3:11

And also just I don't love people knowing where I live in Shocker. So the more people I introduce to that, the more they just kind of deal. But then I also realized that my Wi-Fi is called Small Lake City Podcast, so anybody who your neighbors know where you live. Oh live you know it's ironic because I actually live in a uh townhouse development. So like everybody would have to see be like, I think that guy's here. I don't know where. Yeah, but we'll find the strongest walk around with like your phone and be like, which one gives us three bars of Wi-Fi? We're knocking on the door. But it's also weird to like get to the point now where um like my face is on the internet a lot. And so it's been weird to go. Like, I remember the first time someone saw me be like, hey, you're the podcast guy. It's like, yeah, I am, but then now it's like wild, like it happens anytime I like go out of my rut. Like it's usually home here, home here, home here. Yeah, but you guys will get a crack at this one up. Speaking of Liberty Laps, um, so me and my girlfriend training for uh Salt Lake Hap Marathon, and we couldn't like decide on a route because like it's my house is kind of a hard one to start from. It's just in like marmalade district. Yep. And so I was like, you know what? Let's instead of being sitting here and deciding on like what we could do, let's just go run Liberty Laps. She's like, cool, it's gonna be like seven laps. I'm like, okay, fine. And it was nice because like have your car parked at one spot so you don't have to carry water nutrition, just kind of do lapsing and stop.

SPEAKER_08 4:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 4:36

And so I think we're like three laps in. Like, I'm not like physically my best looking. I'm running. And I stopped my car, grabbed some cliff blocks, chugging some water, and this guy just I like look up like towards the park, and this guy's just staring at me. I was like, and he's like, You're the guy that does the stuff and the videos.

SPEAKER_08 4:54

I was like, that's so funny.

SPEAKER_06 4:56

Yes, yes, I am. Hi, like nice, nice to meet you. Didn't expect this, but that's fun. I mean, it's always nice to have some validation that you're doing and something that people enjoy, and it's always nice.

SPEAKER_07 5:05

They saw it.

SPEAKER_06 5:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 5:07

And remembered it.

SPEAKER_06 5:08

Yeah, like it's yeah, the internet's an interesting thing when you start spending too much time and posting things on there, and it's next thing you know, you have a life you don't really understand.

SPEAKER_07 5:17

Yeah.

Liberty Park Laps And Internet Fame

SPEAKER_06 5:18

But I'm excited for you guys today because like if there's a business that has always kind of been in the background of my life, it's Sol Lake Running Company. Um, like I was alluding to when we came up, like my mom has been a big runner. That was her, I mean, she started kind of later in life, probably around like her third, like early 30s, I'd say, probably like around I was born. Started running, never stopped. I mean, she ran, she's I mean, done St. George 17 times. I mean, all the ones around here, I mean, she's done I mean Salt Lake, Des News, Ogden, like all the main ones. I mean, Boston, New York, Paris, she did once. And so it's always just been like the thing that she did. And me and all my sisters now, I mean, we don't we're not as hardcore about her. Like, I've run St. George once. I think I'm gonna do it again this year because I like I like bonked at the like after like the first half. And so like I've unfinished business because I hate telling people I ran it and be like, yeah, I ran like a 12-minute mile, which some people are gonna hear that be like, well, that's not slow. I'm like, it's low for me. And that's like the beauty about running is it's you versus you, it's not you versus every well, it can be, but that's a whole nother topic. And um, so my mom's always been there, she's always shopped. It's all like running company. I remember so many times I'd be in the car, be like, we've got to make a quick stop, gotta go get some goo, gotta go get some shoes, gotta go get something. So, like mentally, that was always there. And then I grew up kind of near foothill, so I'd always see that there and would always see the sidewalk sales that they would have a foothill. And then now it's been fun because my girlfriend um has gotten into running within the past few years, and she's like, I mean, it's full. Like she's been like been to at least every run club. She's actively a member of like the Salt Lake track club. So it's been fun for me to be like, there's this new part of Salt Lake I don't necessarily know. Because like for me, it's like headphones run, don't talk to me. Like this is my like therapy for lack of a better word. And so it's been fun to see that. And then also with her, she's like, I need to go stop by Solik Running Company to go get nutrition. So it's like, and here it is back again. So I'm excited to talk to you guys because like I mean, starting a business on your own is is its whole feat, but to also to build a community around it and see how much I mean it impacts and and how much you give back. I'm I'm so excited to hear more about kind of the story and and where it all came from. But I mean, to begin with, I mean, I don't even know, are you guys originally from Salt Lake or how did that story get said?

SPEAKER_07 7:29

No, I'm I'm not originally from Salt Lake. I grew up all over the country. I started out as a military brat. So I lived both coasts, up and down the East Coast, San Francisco Bay Area, Panama Canal Zone, like all the things, um, and came out here actually to run in college. And at the U or what? Um actually up at Weaver State.

SPEAKER_06 7:48

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_07 7:49

So it was great to find a Division I school. And my mom and step dad were moving out this direction. Um and my dad was still in San Francisco, so I didn't want to stay on the East Coast. So I came there to a D1 school and it was awesome. And I got here and I was like, huh, I think I'm a mountain girl, like right away.

SPEAKER_06 8:08

Funny how that works.

SPEAKER_07 8:09

I know, and and because I had lived a lot of different places, you know, I could just tell once I got here that I I mean I just loved it right away.

Why Salt Lake Running Matters

SPEAKER_06 8:17

I always love those people that have the context to appreciate it for what it is. Because like I mean, I grew up here, um, left for a Mormon mission once, excuse me, came back, lived in Washington, came back, and even then I was like, do I really want to be here? I'll save you the whole story. But six months living in a van, working remote, 36 states, six months later, I was walking down the mall in DC, and I was like, I'm very excited to go back to Salt Lake. Yeah. Like until you get out and you see like how different things are, how clean things are, like the economics, the nicen of the people, having the mountains, like I mean, I can I know literally where I need to get to from here for my cell phone service to stop working. And like that's something that a lot of people that grew up here to take for granted. And if you see those people that leave leave, when I was a kid and I would see that'd be like, You got it, you got out, like, good job. And then they'd come back like, what did you do? Like you had your chance. So I'd love that you had that context and then got here and you're like, Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 9:10

Yeah, well, this is the place. Yeah, it's been said before.

SPEAKER_06 9:14

What was your event in college?

SPEAKER_07 9:16

Uh, cross country, and then on the track it was the 1500 meter and 3000 meter. Cool. So I'm old enough where they didn't have the women's steeplechase yet, um, which really bummed me out because I used to watch a guy running racing the steeplechase, and I'd be like, Oh my gosh, I wish I could do that so bad. Um, but that was always me.

SPEAKER_06 9:36

Because like when someone in high school going to East, they had like a steeplechase section. I was like, Teacher, what's this for? It's like this race where you jump in the water. I was like, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, really, though, what's it for?

SPEAKER_07 9:47

Like really, really.

SPEAKER_06 9:49

Uh so it sounds like you guys met in college. How did how did those uh paths, not maybe running paths, uh, cross? Or is that as simple as it was? You guys found yourself unattractive.

SPEAKER_07 10:00

I mean, we were freshmen in the same year, and um actually we were quite different, but at the time, like we knew each other, and um and I was like, oh, he's really cute. And I just thought I really loved his fiery personality. Like I could tell he was a very passionate, individually minded person, you know what I mean? And he was self-directed, and so I did always admire that from the start. Um, and then he went on a two-year mission, and during that time we kind of just changed as people. I mean, you do over a couple of years at that age, no matter what you're up to. So it's kind of like our personalities and everything and and dreams and desires and everything just kind of started gravitating towards a central point. So by the time he got back, we were a lot more alike than than when he left. And so, I mean, that's how it seemed like it was to me. Yeah. And we became instant friends as soon as he got back. Um, and like I just saw, and I'm like, oh my goodness, he's more cute than I remember. And that side of the equation a bit better. Yeah, and we became friends and we were friends for you know quite a few months, and then we didn't start hanging out every day until like the following spring. But as soon as we started hanging out, we like were never apart after that.

Finding Utah Through College Running

SPEAKER_06 12:15

Yeah, I always like when relationships start at the right time. Like, because if it would have started too soon, it probably would have blown out and like wouldn't have the opportunity to come back. Um, but then also like because like I it's interesting to see people who get married or get together young because again, like your 20s in general, like that's a wild card of your entrance and your exit. Like even myself, like I always joke if I could go back and talk to myself from I mean 21 or even 10 years ago, like 25, I'd be like, I don't think either of us would enjoy that conversation just because of like how much change that has happened, and especially to go. I mean, the whirlwind of an experience at an LDS mission is where did you go, guy? To Oregon. To Oregon, what part?

SPEAKER_01 12:55

Uh UG started in the Portland mission and ended up in Eugene. Cool. So a trektown USA. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_06 13:02

I was gonna say that's not trying to gauge your age, but it's probably a pretty great time to be there.

SPEAKER_01 13:07

It was a great time to be there. Yeah, yeah. I enjoyed it. It was it was uh Oregon's a fantastic place. If I if I had to leave Utah, I would have it on my list.

SPEAKER_06 13:16

It's I loved it because I have family that lives up there, uh, like one in kind of Gresham along the gorge, one that lives in Lake Wamet Valley and Wine Country, and then one in Wilsonville. I was gonna say Victorville, but it's that's in California. And so I I mean I usually go up every year because I just love going up there. I mean, in the summer, there's no better place to be than the Pacific Northwest. But then also, I mean, just seeing them and everything, and then I was in Seattle, and it's fun to go up and down. But that's a that's a great place to spend two years.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Awesome place, awesome people. Every time I go back, I'm like, I love this place. I'd never been around Green before. Oh, yeah. We flew into Portland, and I was I'd been there one time as an an athlete before, and then we went back uh when I when I moved there for a couple years, and the great it's just beautiful.

SPEAKER_06 14:00

And it's like until people experience it, like to say, oh yeah, it's really green, like that you don't really understand. But then it's like, I mean, you go, I mean, hike, for example, like Punchbowl Falls or Multnomah, like if you go off the path, you're like, I can't go further because it's just like it just stops. It's not like in Utah where it's like, okay, there's some trees we can get around here, it's like it's just this wall of green, and then the rain just keeps it green and it's beautiful. And then, I mean, winters are interesting. I mean, it's it was worse in Seattle than down in Portland. But I like, I'm I'm with you. If someone's like, hey, like let's say hype hypothetically the Great Salt Lake becomes a bigger issue, and like we can't live here unless we're wearing gas masks all the time. I'm like, I'm going northwest, and nobody can stop me.

unknown 14:42

Awesome place.

SPEAKER_06 14:43

Yeah. Okay, so you guys have this great experience in college. Debbie's like, listen, this guy is not only a great runner, but I love his personality. He came back, still hot, interested in this. But sounds like there's more to the story of like you going back up to Oregon, coming down. I mean, was that together or was the the paths kind of diverge again after coming back?

SPEAKER_02 15:04

No, we just reconnected after I came home. And Debbie and I, because we're the same age, she had a shorter lifespan at college than I did. So she's a couple years ahead of me and way more advanced in lots of ways. But being away and doing service, which is what we do when we leave where we grew up and take opportunities, we grow. And I changed as a person and I we fit nicely together. And I'm I grew up in Nevada, you know, the high deserts of Nevada, so Elko, so I I get like everything that that has to offer. I actually enjoy the country and I love the open space, and I could go I'd go there right now if somebody invited me to go and have a great time. But I I do I spend a lot of time in the mountains, I spent a lot of time in the outdoors, so it was easy to be like, yeah, this is a place we could stay. I don't think we sat down and said, you know, look at the world, it's a great big place. Don't you want to see it all? We just decided it felt it felt good to be here. And then we immediately got into after graduating, got into business, and then at that point you wake up and go to work, you wake up and go to work, you wake up and go to work when you're building something. Yeah, you wake up and go to work, you don't think like, Do I want to go to work today? You just wake up and go to work. And 30 years go by, and then that's the story. You just wake up and go to work. So yeah.

SPEAKER_06 16:16

I mean, I always love this is all. I mean, it's so interesting because like I love I've loved the experience of being able to build something of my own. Because like, don't get me wrong, like I've done corporate America, I've done so many things like that. And I mean, I will never discount anybody. I mean, having an amazing career of becoming the the individual contributor to manager to director to VP to executive, like like touch, that's an amazing work. But it building your own thing is such a different experience, and especially like at the beginning of it, of like it really is like priming the pump before the water even begins to flow, and really having that vision and having a partner with you where you're like, hey, like we're still doing this, right? Like, this is this is something we're like actively deciding every day to do. Great.

Love Story And Oregon Mission

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Yeah, when you think about it that way, it's like and you say, like, well, were you planning on building something? It's like I look back now and say, like, did we really build anything? You know what I mean? When you if you make a comparison to what happens in the world and what's happened in the last 30 years, it's like, well, we don't know if it's substantial, we don't know if it's sizable, we don't know if it makes a difference at the end of the day, but the process of doing it, of providing for a need or solving a problem for somebody or filling a gap, it became is is a cool thing being creative in that way. And I'm not necessarily like a creative guy, so to speak, but it just felt good for me, and I I'm okay with like all the other ways that people uh go to work and make money and the careers they have and how they retire. But doing it on my own and and and even though we didn't have a knowledge base, you know what I mean? Like we you think you know, but you don't really know that you don't know till till later. Till you find out, yeah. And they and yeah, and then not being smart enough to like know that maybe we should have called it quits along the way, possibly, or gone another direction. You just don't you just dig in. And and once once you get through your first few years of getting things sorted out and you get a little bit momentum and you start to see it's like, oh, okay, this is like there there's an there is a need here, there is desire here. That's one of the things that's cool about Salt Lake City. There's a you could go to lots of city and cities in the United States of America or maybe even the world and do what we do and have people go like who cares? You know what I mean? There is a there is a there is a culture here, there is a a group of people that that are interested in using the assets around them and using one of those assets as their physical body and doing cool things with their bodies. And we do that. Yeah, and we sell all the gear that goes with it. So if we want to do we don't care your size, your shape, your your speed, any of that stuff. It's like if you want to do cool stuff, we sell uh we're a place to buy and and use cool product.

SPEAKER_06 18:55

Yeah, and I like what you said about that of was it a good idea, was it a bad idea? Maybe, but it's been 30 years, and it's always interesting to talk to people who have like, I mean, let's say built something uh successful. Successful is a very uh subjective word. And it's easy for someone after the fact to look back and be like, ah, hindsight 2020. Well, I did all of this intentionally, this is what I meant to do. It's like, yeah, maybe, maybe not, but probably not. Um, but then I also like kind of what you said about like, was it successful? Because I mean, I mean, comparison's always gonna be the thief of joy. I mean, you could look at anybody else and say, well, they had this and I didn't, or they had that and I didn't, or we didn't become the new Nike or I mean huge retail like JD Sports or a footlock or whatever that might be. Like, oh, are we a failure then? But then when you look back, uh kind of like what we were talking about when we were setting up about like we've loved that we've built this community, we've been enabling these people who use their bodies to do something they're passionate about. And like, don't get me wrong, like you still need to pay the bills, I mean, hit your financial goals, retire at some point, and all of that. But to be able to do that in a way that you can uh amplify a community and have a hub for them, then I mean that's amazing. And in my opinion, some people might disagree and be like, well, you know, you could have made 20% more EBITDA margins if you would have understood your like real estate contract negotiation. Like, you know, it's like it's this never-ending like coulda, coulda, woulda, shoulda, whatever. But I want to go back to uh the story of how this started. I mean, who brought up the idea of being like, hey, I think we should start our own like running business. It's been something we're passionate about, and why not, why not do it ourselves?

SPEAKER_02 20:27

I mean, maybe, maybe coming from me. I mean, I went to school, uh, got a degree in uh psychology, a uh bachelor's, and then got another bachelor's in economics. I had a minor in coaching. Uh came time to graduate, you run out of NCAA eligibility. They tell you you can't make progress anymore, satisfactory progress according to the rules, so you gotta graduate. So you know, I got out and interviewed for jobs and realized quickly this was my senior year. It's like, oh, this you know, go to school, get an education doesn't always mean you get the job or you get the job that you want to get. So immediately I started looking for things I could do on my own and came across an opportunity. Debbie and I had team a teammate that started with us. So we we went looking for this opportunity. It fell in it fell into our lap, so to speak. And a year later, our uh there was Debbie behind the scenes that was my teammate whose name was Kurt Black, an awesome guy. After a year, Kurt was like smart, had a finance degree, had other opportunities, saw the writing on the wall, probably. You know, this was gonna be a tough go for a while, and and we made we made a we made a great decision to buy him out. He made a great decision to get out, uh, and he went about his life and became very successful doing other things, and I just stuck it out. Debbie was there the whole time. You know, we had our firstborn son, and we just, like I said, we just went to work. And I did feel like there was a gap, there was an opportunity. I was avid about the sport of running, I was avid about the physical nature of like the human human anatomy about the about about sport, like what sport is and what it what it is. And and you see, like you think about like like what sport, and I always think about like the Utah jazz and who always get a bad, you know, a bad rap about like stock John Stockton playing dirty or something like that. It's like it's from the from the fans' point of view, they just want to see somebody giving it all. Yeah, you know what I mean. And the sport of running, what does that mean? It doesn't mean you you it doesn't mean you win the race. So the sport of running allows people to just give what they have and leave it all out there regardless of how fast they travel. So it's it's inclusive in that regard. It's it's uh it's not cheap in some in some ways, but it's way less expensive than almost every other sport that happens to be out there. It continues to be so. And I went to somebody and said, Hey, I'm thinking about specializing because when we started, we we had aerobic shoes, we had cross-strained shoes, we had light hiking shoes, and I said, I kind of feel like we need to change our focus and go running specialty. And I had every single person around me say, like, this isn't gonna work. And I just said I I guess I said I disagree. That's what my action showed because I did it anyway. It just proved me a benefit just because we were able to be singular and to be focused. And I think if I were to say something about uh you know being in business, like what's been your advantage, is like we just never took our eye off the ball. And and that there's all the opportunities that you're talking about that came and went literally that may have been bigger, better, faster, stronger, but we just never saw them, never internalized them because they just never took my eye off the ball. And it's been a great ride because of the industry that we're in, the people that the industry attracts. And it's it's really cool to be in the run specialty industry. And we know people from coast to coast. Uh now we're know people that are outside the country and they're just amazing people. And the people that were work for the brands that are in the sell that we buy their product from are amazing people. And if they want something bigger, faster, stronger, they leave the industry and they go work for Google or Apple or you name said business, and the other ones stay, and the ones that stay are like we're here by choice, and we love this space.

Starting The Store Against Doubters

SPEAKER_06 24:06

Yeah. It reminds me a lot of. I mean, one of my favorite book of all time is Shoe Dog. And awesome book. I know, amazing. Well, even just like you saying, like, oh, I was in Oregon for like the heydays in Eugene. I'm like, uh, breathing there during pre. And I mean, but I the thing I love is the people that joined that story early on. Or these people who are so passionate about running to the point they're like, sure, I'll go start a store in Southern California. I might be sleeping in my car for a little bit, but I'm gonna go do this. And like nothing beats passion. I mean, it's like hearing you, Debbie, talk about him being like, here's this guy who was driven, who was motivated, who was willing to do it on his own. And like those are the people that, again, like you like, you seem like the guy, but um, that's like you're very focused on the task and it's succeeding and making sure it happens at all costs. Like, if I were a competitive runner and I had to line up next to you, I'd probably be pretty scared because I know that you probably did everything possible to beat me in that race, no matter how much I knew that I put into that. And I love one thing that you you had talked about was kind of creating this thing that that people have always felt drawn to. And going back to my experience I've had recently with running clubs, I always get the same experience when I show up to them because they'll be like, Oh, Eric, nice to meet you, like where are you from? Like, oh, I'm from here. And it's like, wait, what? You're from here? No one's from here. We're all from like Midwest somewhere else. Like, oh no, no, I am. And it's fun to see, and it's it's definitely found in running in Utah because it's like one of the five like core hobbies of like running, biking, skiing, snowboarding, and like rock climbing. Yeah, we'll call that good. Um, but it's fun to see so many people move here to be because they want to be a mountain person or are drawn to it, but then they get here and just like anybody in adult, whether you're 25, just graduated, or 75, like making friends as an adult and finding people in general is hard, especially when you go to a new place in a new space with all you have is like a pair of running of road shoes, a pair of trail shoes, and be like, Well, who wants to come with me? And to be able to have a place where if I mean, I was recording with someone who is uh like does AI search optimization, but it's like if I was someone to come here and be like, well, where do I start? I can't like I can go on a trail, but like the thought of just being on a trail be like, hey, like, so you do this too. Like, can I follow you? It's like, probably not, but thank you. Um, and that's so hit and miss. But to like to be that beacon for people to come, I'm sure you guys have your own respective experiences of someone coming and being like, hey, I just moved here. What's the next step after getting some nutrition and some shoes? And so I'm I'm curious to see, like, or hear your y'all's take over the past 30 years that you've done this. I mean, what have you noticed from the running community from being uh running passionate entrepreneurs to like what we see it today?

SPEAKER_07 26:43

Yeah, that's a really good question. And actually, the last couple weeks, I've been out of town at some different um events, like run industry events. Like I was at Empower Run, which is an all-women like leadership conference for executives, owners, key people, key women in the industry from brands and from retail. Um, and we were talking about, you know, the way that they phrased that was like what makes um like run specialty stores special. And last week I got the chance to actually be at Nike headquarters for a summit for an RSG retailer summit.

SPEAKER_05 27:18

Amazing.

SPEAKER_07 27:19

Yeah, it was amazing, absolutely amazing.

SPEAKER_05 27:21

Did you give about the employee store?

SPEAKER_07 27:22

Oh yeah, good, yeah. And um, so it's just an amazing place. But even at that level, you know, all the different brands, whether it's Nike or Brooks or Hoka or whatever, they're always asking the same thing like, how do you make Run Specialties so special? Because they could go all dot com, right? And yet they've realized over the years, especially Nike, did pivot away from because they did their whole investing big into Amazon and then that fell flat. Or just yeah, into the whole right, into the whole e-commerce channel.

SPEAKER_06 27:55

Nike is one of the few brands that I've like I can talk about very granular details about.

SPEAKER_07 28:03

They changed their course. And when Elliot Hill came back, you know, back into it and on board as CEO, he was like, we have to remain true to who we are, um, which really for any business, like say that to yourself. We have to remain true to who we are, right? And so that included getting back connected to the local community, including the run channel, right? And because it's the people and the communities that really help whatever brand it is, whether it's our local store or you know, a big brand, come to life in a lot of ways, right? That's where it's hands-on and you get to interact. And so over the last 30 years, there's just been a lot of effort made from us like to help our segment of that be as special as we can. Because we want to have that connection with our community. Like you're saying, that resource where people are like, okay, like I think I want to start running. So what do I do now? And there's a whole thing that comes with, you know, all these different answers. It's not like, well, I should go get a pair of shoes. And then, yeah, where do I run? Is there something I could do? And then that leads into events because like we have the whole run SLC series, and now we have trail races, and you know, and then just engaging with our community with free events, you know, and our brands come to town and like, hey, try this shoe, try this shoe, try this shoe, you know, and trying to line people up with the run clubs. Like now we have a page where it's like if people want to like what kind of run clubs are out there? Well, they could go to our website and we have a whole page of run clubs.

SPEAKER_06 29:33

They're not all the same. And it's the fun to see how different they are.

SPEAKER_07 29:36

Exactly. Like when those listings get created, I've have been pretty fascinated by just the different vibes they all have, the different purposes, the different, you know, niche people that they speak to and needs and all that kind of stuff. So I feel like a run specialty store, you know, that that that community funnel is why they they're special. You know what I mean? In addition to the product, because some people think that, you know, the shop is like, oh, you carry, you know, some of the same stuff that Dix has or whatever. And it's like, well, actually, you know, we're willing to experiment with some of the cool stuff that, you know, a big box store won't have and the brands will work with us in different ways. So sometimes you can come check stuff out that you know you can't check out other places, you know what I mean? And then the knowledge base, right? Like again, like when you think about it as a new runner, like, okay, I want to run now what? And it's pretty common, right? Even in other sports, like if you're a climber or a cyclist, to like go to your shop and start asking questions. Like, where's the cool routes to climb? You know, or like I I need shoes, but I don't know what.

SPEAKER_06 30:46

Yeah. And daunting. You go you go on like any brand website or any like big box website, you're like, okay, so I just narrowed down and I'm still at like 223 options.

SPEAKER_07 30:58

Exactly. And you just really don't know because it's something you've never experienced before. And you don't know that, you know, potentially switching to a different even type of short could really improve your run, or you know, the kind of shirt you're wearing could matter, you know, like you'd be more comfortable in a different material or, you know, whatever. And then obviously, when you get to marathons, like your mom having done all those marathons and all of a sudden nutrition is a like a thing, right? And like I need water and I need to eat. And like, how am I gonna do that when I go that far?

SPEAKER_06 31:29

You mean I need salt and carbs and calories and things like okay.

SPEAKER_07 31:32

Yeah, like and when you've done it for a really long time, you forget that there are all those questions and honest, and obviously there's online resources, but people still like want to talk to people who've experienced it face to face.

What Makes Run Specialty Special

SPEAKER_06 31:46

In the same way. And yeah, like because I've a couple things is one, like it wasn't until I started training for my first marathon. I was running a lot, like I kept having these lower back pains. I was like, what is going on? Like these just keep showing up. And then next thing I was running on a pair of pegs and Nike pegs, I said for everybody else. And I was like, why is this not working? Like this hurts. Like, I keep getting around four or five miles and my back hurts, like to the point I have to walk. And then I was like, record scratch, but I'm like, maybe I should try different shoes. So I got a pair of Nike Invincible twos, and I was like, bingo, we are back. And then they discontinued those after having four pairs of Nike Invincible threes. But now we're on some Vomeros, and I mean, I mean everyone's on Vomeros right now. It's kind of fun to be. Vomero Plus? Yes, not the pluses, the pluses are aggressive, not a Hoka plus guy. Uh, but I did get a pair of the um Storm ones from the sale on President's Day. Yes. Your diary. Well, it was funny because like again, I know a lot about Nike, because like it sounds like you know a lot about Nike. Don't don't go in any other brands, or else it's like you ask your physics teacher about art history and just um but so one reason I know a lot about Nike is one of my best friends uh from like high school, early college, he he was older than me. He actually went on to go work at Nike in their real estate group. And I was in Seattle, so every time I come down to visit family, be like, How many employee passes do you have left? Can I go work out at the gym on campus? Can we go run some laps on the track? And it was he now works at um Alo, Aloe, Alo, Aloe, Alo. I was never it's like you know those things you see all the time, you never say it out loud. And the first time you go to stay, you're like, oh rut row, like this could go wrong. But and it was fun to like get to explore that. But anyway, going back to buying shoes, I was like, oh hey, babe, like they have my exact same shoes I'm running on right now, but they're the storm version. She's like, Oh, is that the trail shoe? I'm like, no, that's not the trail shoe. The trail shoe would have a different mid and a different soul to run on trail. This is the storm version, which means it's waterproof and has a little bit of tread because these shoes are developed in the Pacific Northwest, where you need to have a winter shoe instead of a normal roadshoe. Um, and so it was fun. She's like, okay, I don't get it, but like, sure, get it. Um, and they're also like not quite as stretchy because of waterproof fabric and yada. We could go on forever of Cortex. But um, so that was like a good experience to have. But then also what I wanted to say is the reason I lived in Seattle was my first job after college was at Nordstrom. And I mean, Nordstrom, they haven't done so great in the last 10 years, but it was interesting to hear them as someone who is a big box retailer of apparel. One thing that they always drove home was like service. Like we will always hand them the bag at the end of the counter. We'll always help that like we are a service business that sells things. Because at the end of the day, there's um whenever we go through these like technological adaptations, and we're gonna use the internet in this example where there's kind of two crowds that can form on it. There's gonna be the pessimists that say, oh my God, I run a specialty running business, everyone's just gonna go online and buy shoes, we're done for. But then there's the people who's like, hey, I think there's gonna be some opportunity for us to do something that they can't. And so in the same way, like, oh, I could go on dicks and go buy shoes, or I don't even know what to do when I get there. There might be like an AI chat bot or a call in a customer service, but they don't really know. But instead, you walk into Solid Running Company and someone's like, Well, I need to run, I want shoes. You're like, Cool, well, hop on the treadmill, let's see like what your running pattern looks like. Uh, let's, I mean, just get a general idea of how far are you running? Are you running on a trail, are you running not? Are you trying to run both? Get some ideas. And instead of going from that filter of like 230 shoes, it's like, pick out three or four. And by the way, you need a half-size bigger because that's why your toenails are hurting, and they and another side topic that no one ever wants to get into. But and then there's that. And so it's I uh I I'm a big believer in in the world we find today where technology like looks like this big bag scary monster. There's ways to turn on the lights to make it go away and realize it's not as scary as it once was. And I know you guys still have like your online store, which is great to still have that presence anyway. But I think that I mean, being there for the events, being there for people that want to have it, having a space for people to come. Uh, I mean, that's how you get ingrained and get people to come back. It's not just by, oh yeah, we have the shoe you want, the size, here you go, go check out, have a good day. Like that just doesn't stick with people. Like, people care about things these days. So now I love that. And I mean, I mean, thinking about like, I mean, over the years, like how have you guys separated responsibilities, or especially as things have grown? I mean, how is that like delegation process? Because I mean, when you have your own baby that you started, and all of a sudden, like, hey, we can't do everything anymore, but bringing people on and trusting someone to like babysit your kid is is a very different story.

SPEAKER_02 36:16

Yeah, I mean, I the baby term I've had some I've I've seen I've seen that use. It never never got that specific for me because I or Snap Baby, whichever. Yeah, in the sense that I never I never was out to create anything for myself. Um, in the sense that like you look around the country, we even had some here locally where it was like you know, the name of the store was named after the person that started the store. And I just there's a whole trend.

SPEAKER_06 36:44

You know like Nordstrom was Nordstrom's and like all the big box ones that's all possessive.

SPEAKER_02 36:48

So it just was it just was it was never in my in my makeup to like build this for my to build this for myself. So for me, I uh it wasn't like did I want to be successful? Like, did I want to fail was the first thing. No, I didn't I did not want to fail. Was I willing to do whatever it took that was legal, moral, ethical, absolutely, you know. Important caveats on that one, yeah. Absolutely. There's there's not a little there's not a there's a lot, a lot of wriggle room when you think about like like what are we what are we really trying to do here? So everything was uh in that regard. And and and when you and you when you get in that category, really quickly you realize if you're gonna if you're gonna build, create, make something that's that's uh that's gonna last or that has real meaning and purpose, you're never gonna do it alone. You're just it's it's just not gonna happen alone. And and in the small business world, you talk to people all the time, and I probably said it myself, but if I went back and as you said, talk to my former self, we'd probably disagree. And I'm 55 now, and if I talk to my 50-year-old self, we'd probably still have little words with each other, like man, you're such a fool. When you said in a small business world, you could easily say if you want something done right, you need to do it yourself. Well, I completely disagree with that.

SPEAKER_06 38:00

Yeah, I love the term delegator die.

SPEAKER_02 38:02

Yeah, because if you yeah, literally literally have a coronary, have an embolism, whatever the like a lot of people stress themselves or die an early death because they carry too much too soon. So I mean, we're not a we're not a billion-dollar business, we're not something out of nowhere where we had to scale and do all these things, and we certainly don't have a technology on our side or have it for 25 years. You know, we relate to the game in all these ways that technology could help our business, even though we're there now. It took people and it took somebody who actually cared. Because it and it wasn't like, hey, I got a I got I have a way for you to make a ton of cash. Why don't you come work for me? It's like I have a way for you to do something with purpose, with meaning, connecting with like-minded people in an industry that is supportive and helpful, and you can make some money along the way and get some discounts on products that will fit. It's it's a win-win thing. Yeah. So it would it that was easy for me in regard.

SPEAKER_06 38:57

Yeah, I love the passionate people side of things because like using your example of like, yeah, some people come, they go, I mean, for lack of a better term, like sell their soul to Google or like a company that's like, hey, you want to go make five times as much? Cool, here you go. But at the end of the day, like the people that stick around are like, hey, actually, I do like seeing that person come back and be like, hey, actually, those shoes you changed for me, like I don't have like that Achilles strain anymore, my chin splints are gone. I got my PR because you've told me to get uh the vapor flies that we fought about for five weeks because I didn't think it was gonna be worth it, or I didn't want to change nutrition because of this. And it's like, well, actually, I I think you should. And then to see those people come back and keep coming back because like we know we trust people, and it's the people that are like, hey, I actually there's something here I want to be a part of. And those are the people that I mean I will always be motivated by because passion, like I mean, money comes, money goes, whatever, but being surrounded by the right people in the right ways for the right missions, I mean, that's when magic happens. Everything else, it's like, oh, cool. If I'm not getting a paycheck, like I don't align with this big company, whatever it could be, value. Because again, everyone else, their public company, all they care about is hitting targets, hitting financial metrics, whatever it might be that the investors want, grow at all costs without the ethical moral dilemma like dilemmas that normal people face and make right decisions, but that's a whole nother topic.

SPEAKER_02 40:17

Um it is it is real, like when you talk about making a difference in somebody's life, like trying a product, having it change their running experience, getting a PR, getting off of an injury, like our our team that is real, it happens every single day. And and and and somebody who is validated or reinforced by that, or that's a driver for them, um, even though we do working with people can some day times be difficult. And and and if you want to go read on the our Google reviews, you'll find out we're not a hundred percent perfect a hundred percent of the time, you know, and we with making people happy, but we're trying. And for our for our team that does that, like we have a you know, our front end team and our back end team, like it that literally does happen. So if you just stepped out of the the dollars and figures and profitability, which you cannot and have a business at the same time. But if you could hypothetically or heuristically do that, you could there's way more storytelling or fun experiences or motivational journey in all of that than anything that happens on the back end, like making sales projections, pay projections, building a marketing plan, you know, deciding where the next location is gonna be, dealing with the landlord, whatever the case case may be. You know what I mean? It's way more fun on the on the front end, and every person is a unique individual. So you can say, like, well, all they do is they go through the same process every time. It's like, well, if you chose to do that, which means you're not engaging or connecting, which is a part of our core values, you're not connecting to the individual that's in front of you and providing this unique opportunity or servicing them uh wherever they happen to be at in their journey. So for our people, when they're on the sales floor, it's a hard task because it's like, how quickly can we ascertain like where this person is at on the journey by asking the right questions and deciding what the next step is and meeting them? So they have to know a lot. And we, you know, there's a phrase that we picked up. It's like, you know, the tech is always there, but but you don't have to start with it. And and the wrong person at our store might come on and say, like, I love the technology and running, and I want to tell everybody about it. It's like that's awesome, but that's very little with what our people actually do, yeah. And explaining like the stack heights and the derometers of mid souls and all the stuff that goes on. They're they're on the lives of people. Like, what do you plan for? Tell me why are you doing it?

SPEAKER_06 42:39

Yeah, it's like the why behind it. And it's like so easy to get caught in that almost like conveyor belt mentality. Like, okay, here's someone else comes in. What size are you? What do you do? What have you been running on? Cool, here you go. Which color meet you up here? But instead, it's like, yeah, like why are you doing? What are you in here for? You came for something. Why do you run? Like, what like what's the why behind all of this? And there's a million different paths you can go, and that's again why you have a specialty store that will meet you where you are compared to a website where we'll meet you on your couch. And there's a place for both, but I mean, I know the place that I always prefer to go because I want someone I can trust and can like sit there and talk with me. And and because again, like these make differences. Like, I've like the amount of like I almost stopped running completely because I was like having injuries and I'm like not an injury person. Like, I if there's one thing I've done consecutively for the past 14-ish years of my life, it's I mean, mostly like weightlifting exercising, but like it's always been running for me, it's been like an up and down thing, and but I'm very much in right now, which is fun. Because then, like, when you hit that like runner's high of like you're like, I'm excited to run compared to the days you're like, I'm starting at 0.0 again, and well, we're gonna go see if we can do 12 miles, and it's not gonna be fun, but I'm gonna go do it.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

Well, and this is a great uh uh a great story for Debbie. When you like I grew up seeing myself as an athlete, and I just happened to be better at running than I was at other sports that I played. Well, Debbie is is a full-on real legend athlete and could have done other things. So the moment we got out of college and we got settled into our lifestyle together quickly, running was always a part of it, but it never was like had to be the thing. Like even if it's it's run or die, it's run or nothing, it's run every day. We developed a multi-sport lifestyle, we we started doing other sports, and I'll let her talk about that. And you go to running store, and somebody's like, Have you considered taking a day off? And and some running store's like, Why would you ever do that? It's like, because it's the best thing for you long time.

SPEAKER_06 44:34

Have you ever tried doing a zone two run for a couple months?

Delegation Culture And Purposeful Staff

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Have you thought about uh swimming? Have you thought about walking? Have you thought about biking? Have you thought about hiking? Have you thought about I mean talk about Utah has all of these things, and our customer database or our demographics is like our people ski in the winter? Yeah, they do, and they do other sports in the summer too, and they use running as the basis of fitness, like show me a sport that's sorry, a real sport that doesn't have running as the basis of yeah, aerobic development, like it's just so helpful for like most most anything, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 45:09

You know, even just life in general. Like my and like that's been kind of the conversation of the last few years of like can we call it wellness, fitness. It's like no matter how many I mean, I I know like life expectancy has been kind of like plateauing for a couple reasons, but like when we think about life, like I don't care about living until I'm 110. I want to have a good active lifestyle that I can do whatever I want to for as long as I can before I'm with this body doesn't work anymore. And I want to do the fun thing, I want to be able to go hike to the top of the mountains and run with friends and go swim, bike, hike, run, ski, all the things that we do here that makes it so great. And like I've found that uh I mean, running is one of the things that I can do. Like I was did it with biking for a while, but it was hard because I'm like, all right, if I want to go on a bike ride, it's a 30-minute process just to get ready and then I'm gone for another two hours. Whereas running, I'm like, cool, just put on shorts, just put on t-shirt, tank top, make maybe take some pre-workout, shoes on, and I'm out my door ready to go. And like I can still get a pretty good workout of if I'm just gonna go run, like even I can butt break a sweat of one mile and go run in, depending on pace, like around 10 minutes, and like that was good. Like that, that's what I got. Whereas everything else, it takes a little bit more to it. So that's always been kind of like my impetus or like how I fit running into my life, whether it's like again, those peaks and valleys in my life, it's the peak where. I'm like, hey, we're training for uh St. George. I'm running 30 miles a week. I'm so excited to not run after that race is over. But then even like now I'm like still deciding if I'm gonna do St. George's here or not. But I'm like, okay, so I have a long run on Sundays, usually anywhere from 12 to I mean 10 to 15. But now I need to get my like base pace back, I mean base mileage back up. So I'm gonna try to like maybe run three miles every other day, maybe one in between. But like my mom was the person who like even today, like her and her husband run every day. And so like I never saw that there was like this ability to just be like, oh, you don't have to do this. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:57

And there's nothing wrong with it, but it's certainly I I grew up in that mentality, and it's changed over time as we've realized the quality versus quantity thing. And if you want to increase to keep your VO2 max high, you can certainly do that during the score of running, but you can also do it in other ways too. And as we age and get a little few years under our about, we realize, oh, I gotta start to get clever. I mean, Debbie and I, we could race competitively until we were you know 40 years old, and you just have to get clever along the way, and you realize, oh, and I wish I was this clever when I was 25. And now science has developed the sport in all of these ways that it was always lurking there, yeah, like with nutrition, with technique, with technology, was always there. And you just like salivate what you think about like what would it have been like, and you're like, oh, it's I'm doing more, I'm doing more important things. Wouldn't have made me an old probably wouldn't have made me an Olympian, even if I'd had those shoes back then. Right. You know what I mean? But it's a draw because the truth is like there's some cool stuff going on. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 48:00

Well, and it's funny to look in hindsight, like going back to shoe dog of them being like, oh, we got onitsukas from Japan. Like, I look at a pair of onitsukas, I'm like, you want me to run in that? My feet won't last the year. And then when you think about, I mean, all the shoes that they were developing during that time, and literally, I mean, I mean, the Nike waffles are named that way because they the soul was printed with a waffle iron. And then today now it's I mean, it's there's so many things going in so many different ways. But then also, I mean, one of my another one of my favorite books is like Born to Run, where they kind of like tear that apart of like, is it doing what it should be? And that like nutrition and how humans have run forever. And if you're more interesting book, go read that book. But um, but I like kind of what you're talking about earlier, is like we're not gonna force that on you, and like people different people have different things that they need or different, I mean, I mean let's call it a value that they want to have, but meaning them where they are, especially if they're like, Oh, I'm gonna go run every day for the rest of my life, no matter if I get burnt out or injured. And there's people it's like, I like it right now, so I'm gonna buy some shoes, and I might not buy you might not have seen them for another five years, but we're at least gonna do it now. And because there's even thinking about the million things that we all do. I mean, whether from just like general life and being able to be able to chase your kids around the park and playground, or I mean, walk your child down the aisle and they get married and not have to worry about that. Like, there's I think that's one thing, but then also, I mean, from like the hyper-local perspective, it's like, oh, you want to be in better shape so you don't tear your knee when you're skiing? Yeah, running's probably a good idea. You want to be better on a bike and like you're kind of sick of being on a saddle, like go change it up. You want to be the intramural intramural league all-star or whatever you're doing, go do that. And so I agree, I think it has a place with everything. And I like running, it's a bad rap. And like I always love like poking at people, like, like, oh, you I don't run, I don't like running. Like, tell me about this. Is it like being alone with your thoughts? Is it like being able to stick with something? Is it about like this, like doing something hard? Yeah, it's hard, it's not an easy easy sport.

SPEAKER_07 49:54

No, but and I think that's one of the reasons, again, why it's so important to have a good resource, even locally, just to help teach people, you know, that the way that you're structuring your fitness time is probably great. You know what I mean? Like we don't expect you to be a runner. Our mission statement doesn't even have the word runner or running in it. And just because we're here to help inspire our community to move, you know, and with purpose, embrace adventure and consciously connect with their body. And when we were working on that mission statement, it was, I was pretty personally pretty serious about exactly what we're talking about, which is, you know, people choose to run in our product. Awesome. Obviously, that's a lot of what we focus on in our training our staff. Um, but we know that it's not the way most people actually use the product. That they don't call themselves a runner, you know, kind of, you know, like there was a moment I was like, yeah, I'm a runner. Right. Or or they'll say, you know, the famous, the famous, you know, quote, which is, you know, like, hey, what are you in here today for? Like, well, I'm not a runner, but I'm gonna go do a half air a half marathon. And we're like, okay, well, that's kind of a lot. Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 51:13

And so like the happy Gilmore, like, I'm gonna go from a hockey plane. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_07 51:18

Exactly. And and so basically in our process of trying to, you know, meet people where they're at, we're also trying to make sure that, you know, part of the message that we're sending, even with some of the community activations that we do, is like, hey, you know, we have a community activation with F-45 and Sugarhouse, and it's a high rocks, you know, a mini high rocks event. And you can go for a run if you'd like first and then try some of this mini high rock stuff. Um, because we want to encourage people to do that kind of thing. You're gonna, when you do run, you'll feel better, except on the days you're tired. But I mean, overall, like less injuries, yeah, more resilient, right to the training that you are doing, all that kind of stuff. And, you know, even if it's, you know, we'll have, you know, clinics on, you know, stretching and you know, strength training and all these other things. Um, and for a while we even were in the world of triathlon stuff. And so, um, and so we fully recognize, and we even in our staff meetings just recently when we do monthly trainings with our staff, you know, had a breakout on this concept. Like people are doing all kinds of stuff, and which is awesome. And um, and some of our message messaging says that it like one of our billboards last year was just move more, smile more, you know, because we are serious about people just moving, you know, and knowing that when they come in, they could be running in our stuff sometimes. They could be walking in it, they could be hiking in it, they could be taking their dog out. You know what I mean? It could be, it could be a lot of things. And I actually think it's better that way that people, and I think people are way better at it now than they were, you know, especially 20 and 30 years ago, of getting that holistic lifestyle. And it's so cool to see it trickling down from our generation, who were the first people to kind of really start delving into more of a cross-training lifestyle. Um, and watching people who are in the age groups coming out of college and they're already doing it. Like they know like it's okay to be a hybrid athlete, you know. And, you know, there's like Nick Bear, who's, you know, got his whole champ, you know, YouTube channel, and a lot of people follow him, or you know, and then there's other, you know, men and women like him. And I'm like, I think that's so awesome. I just think it's really awesome. Yeah, you know, and and now there's a whole push, and even um, you know, with like slow twitch.com, which has been historically just, you know, triathlon oriented kind of things. Um, maybe some cycling a little, but mostly triathlon. And they're like, oh, but there's people are gravel riding, people are ultra running, you know, and the ultra running and gravel riding, you know, even for sure 10 years ago weren't any kind of buzzwords. Yeah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 54:04

It was very, very niche.

Movement First Beyond Just Running

SPEAKER_07 54:06

Yes. And they're just becoming more like uh people know about it, you know, more people try in it. And I think it's just gonna ebb and flow. You know, people are gonna say, hey, I'm gonna, I'm gonna ultra run, you know, I've got some things I want to do, and they're gonna check stuff off their list. And then maybe they're gonna try, you know, you know, gravel writing at that point, or maybe they're doing a little bit of it together, or you know, one year they'll focus on one, and then another year they're like, hey, I have always wanted to do St. George Marathon. It's just one I've never done. Like, let's do it. And I think it's cool to see people like being really open-minded about like the adventures that they want to take, right? And where is it gonna take them? And so we have to really just always in our own what we again, what we do for the community, like what's our role in that? You know, and and one of them is just to be like celebrating, right? And like when people come in, like, hey, what are you up to? You know, what do you what whom we help you with? What are you doing with it, you know, and how often? You know, just those kinds of things. And it's cool to be a part of all that kind of stuff. And even nutritionally, like people know like they can come to us for this long stuff, even if it is gravel riding and all that stuff, like, oh, salt like running has so much nutrition, like I'm gonna go there. Like, even to be able to reach people in that way.

SPEAKER_06 55:18

I love showing up there and like, all right, what flavors haven't we had?

SPEAKER_07 55:21

Exactly. It's like a smaller. Yeah. So it's, you know, um, and again, something we just try to make sure that that, you know, our that our sales floor staff that's connecting with people every day, like they're really like, oh yeah, like we have all these kind of people, and we just have to be cheer. I mean, we're cheerleaders, like it's a big deal to have people feel validated in what they're doing. And I think we do sometimes underestimate based on feedback that we've gotten even recently. I think we underestimate sometimes the impact that we have on somebody's journey. Yeah. You know, I'm because you know, personally, I've always been pretty self-motivated. And I've told myself over the years, like it's, you know, I don't care what people think or don't think, you know, about what or do or don't do athletically. Um, but for the most part, most people, it just means so much to be like, oh, that's awesome. Like, I'm so happy for you, you know, to hear their story. And they just leave and they go, I just felt really supported, you know what I mean? And I can do this.

SPEAKER_06 56:31

And because I was in an environment I felt empowered and like I can do this, yeah, you know, whether it's the person who looked in the mirror and said something's got to change, or the person who's like, I want to qualify for Boston. Whatever. But yeah, I mean, like, if I were to wake up and say, Oh, I like want to go on a run and I walk half of it, like no one knows, which isn't a depending on your goals and what you're trying to accomplish. I wouldn't say it's a bad thing, it's just not the thing that I'm trying to do. No one's gonna know that. And like, no one's like, if I go to show up at a friend's house or dinner, be like, Oh, let me tell you about my run I went on yesterday. Like, there might be one or two that's like, yeah, I'm in, this is amazing. Tell me, but the other one's like, can we talk about anything else than just you walking as fast as you could? And and like, so to have someone who's like, Yeah, actually, I I love running, I do want to hear this and care about that, and especially seeing people like anytime I'm on like a running low, and like I haven't gone on like a with anything above like a mile or two on a treadmill, like I need to do something and like go through the mental of like, okay, get up, go run, go do this, whatever. I mean, we've all had those thoughts, but then like you come back and you're like, Why do I hate running? This is amazing. I feel amazing. Look at these endorphins. Oh my gosh, like I could go conquer the world. And so, like, the more that you can introduce people to that feeling from wherever they are, and just like almost start this like, I mean, drip of that, and then to get them going, like, I think it's it's a good thing for everyone to experience, no matter what they they're starting from or working towards, or or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 57:51

And much needed in our society, the way the world has shifted and what the way we go to work and we live our lives, which is very different than when I was growing up, you know, and uh technology has changed our habits, and and sometimes like even the best of the best of the best fight can get out the door just to be outside. It's like there's the mountain, and yet there's my screen, and you know, there's this there's this push-pull. And if you if you follow a podcast or research, there's a ton of data that just says it doesn't take much of certain things to get this endorphin flux, an anabolic flux, a hormone flux, a muscle pump, or whatever that's gonna just make you feel change your physiological state. It's a beautiful thing, and it's like I grew up in I grew up in in the wild, I grew up in the wilderness, so every weekend we were out doing something, so I don't know it any other way. Um, but as we become city dwellers in concrete jungles, and there's nothing wrong with it. You mentioned Liberty Park, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it, or or Central Park in New York, it's an amazing place. We just have some bonus things that can pull us. And if that's all you do, it's totally fine. But it is hard to get out the door. And the nice thing is there are real uh uh benefits when you do it, when and when you feel it, you begin everything's easy, and you go down this road, the self-efficient efficacy theory, and then you can see meaningful, uh measurable results fairly quickly. Because the human body is amazing, the human body is amazing, and it just needs a stimulus, yeah. And you can do that yourself or in a group, or yeah, however you want it for you. So it's like it's like we uh we're not it's like there's min no gatekeeping, it's just like no one's setting the rules, you follow your guidelines. I mean, obviously we'd love to sell you some cool gear, you know what I mean? At the end of the day, we're a we're a sneaker store, right? And we love all that stuff too, but it's uh it's a it's the it's the path to something greater, and that greater is way better than any of the gear we sell at the end of the day, and I was reminded of that.

SPEAKER_07 59:56

That's one of the things I was reminded of, like I was referring to earlier just last week. Um, up at Nike headquarters, we got to hear from Coach Bennett, who is the guy who does the Nike Run Club app that could does all the coaching on there, and just he just talks to you through the whole run, like you know, all this is it sounds really cool. I actually haven't listened to his actual um audio tracks, but people actually love it. And one of the things he was reminding our, you know, all of us as retail store, you know, people and and also Nike at the same time was you change people what you do. You change people's lives. It's hard to remember that sometimes. Yeah, you know, when you are behind a screen, when you know, like for me, most of my job in the last 10 years has been financial and marketing and and buying, like apparently.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:50

It's easy to get lost in that goal when you're like, all right, month closed, time to close the books.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:55

Yeah, exactly. And it's just all that it's the task list, right? Like every job, even when even when there's a cool outcome, every job has a task list, you know, that you're just trying to bust out, you know, every single day, every single week. And it was really cool to be reminded that, you know, again, especially because we are a community-centric business, that what we do does change people's trajectories, you know, and one of my favorite um kinds of stories is, you know, someone who's had an addiction problem, for example, you know, like we donate to a lot of like over 70 different nonprofits, and we have a grant grant program on top of that. And I just for me, I just really love hearing the stories of people in that, like again, it's just an example, like in fit to recover, you know, in that program where where this whole process of helping their bodies move to a point where their brain chemistry does change because of the movement instead of the drug. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like that is very impactful, and that's awesome.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:03

It's like the human, I mean, humans in general, we were meant to do a lot more than we currently do. Like we were supposed to go hunt and gather and fight and move and do all this, and like now we have to like carve out time to get like because I like I know myself well enough to know the things I need to do daily, weekly, monthly for me to like not go insane. And a big thing of that daily is I need to move my body, exercise some way, shape, or form. And then now I was talking to someone recently that talked about how we're getting to that point with like um like just brain and mental stimulation, where because like I mean it's easy for to use I mean chat GPT or LLM to do a lot of like kind of like the more mundane things, which it good or bad, I'll leave that up to whoever. But like it still means we do need to have some sort of like stimulation uh intelligent. Like I like I'm someone who wakes up, and one of the few things I do before I start my day is I do like every single uh New York Times game. And because it just like it's what gets my brain going. And I didn't realize how important it was until I like stopped doing it. Oh, I'm like kind of like lethargic, like it's hard for me to like get going. And so I agree, like the more that we can have those built into our practice, whatever works for us, to have those endorphins. Because again, like that's one, like there's a study I saw that said like the two things that can help you get out of depression is uh uh running. I can't remember if it said exercise in general, but if I think it actually said running and psychedelics, and we'll not go down that rabbit hole right now, but like I've yet to meet someone who's like, wow, I started running and I'm depressed. You know, like that's like I've never heard that.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:33

No, it totally helps. And and um, you know, and it's something that you don't have to age out of. Now, maybe sometimes, and we're old enough now, we do understand this, like, and this is my point earlier too. Like, some people do age out of running in and of itself as an activity just because of joints or you know, other issues or whatever. But, you know, again, we're a movement-inspired company, right? And we're here to help people have these experiences that that put them in the best place possible, um, you know, purposefully driven. And, you know, and that's where, you know, again, my own passion is like, yeah, so go to the weight room, right? Because talk about like you can increase even when you're older and you're postmenopausal, you can increase your testosterone, you can increase, you know, growth hormone, you can you can stimulate those bone strong.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:26

Yeah, exactly.

Mental Health Addiction And Aging Well

SPEAKER_07 1:04:27

Yeah, exactly. You know, like yeah, bone health and and mimicking, you know, estrogen and all that kind of things that you've just lost. You know what I mean? And so it's like really awesome and exciting that the human body has adapted to ways to help keep itself young, but you just have to know what to do and go do it, right? And so I do think that's exciting that the human body is capable of that. It is ridiculously hard, even as you age. I mean, like you're talking about those days where you're just like, oh my gosh, I have to go do, you know, this run or whatever. And like, guy will watch me like, oh, I gotta go to the gym. I gotta drive five minutes and go to the gym because my gym's only like five minutes away. And so um it feels like trying to get out of quicksand on those days, right? Like I feel like I'm sinking, but it's crazy how once the workout is done, there's a complete chemical shift from that anabolic stimulus, you know what I mean? And so, because I would hate for anybody to think, well, gee, if I can't, you know, if I can't run and get that kind of endorphin, well, then maybe I'm, you know, screwed. And I'm just like, no, actually, well, you could get on an assault bike, that'll kick your butt. You'll feel better after eight by 30 second sprint on that thing. You know what I mean? And like again, like it changes you. It's just really cool. And so I just love the resiliency of the body. I mean, it takes a lot more work in a lot of other ways to keep it functional, but it's like if you put the work in, it's you get the payoff. Oh, yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:05

Yeah, it all takes that that right amount of input. Um anything else you guys want to make sure we cover?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:14

I think one thing is how our name gets in the way of us helping people. It's all like running a company is uh a misnomer when you think about it. There's a lot of people who don't understand what we actually do, or they're intimidated. Uh and in our hist in our history, there were probably reasons to be intimidated, like 30 years ago when we were young and fast and competitive and aggressive and all those things. Or people would come in and immediately say, I'm not a runner. My friend told me to come here, and you know, we think about like in my mind, I've I've thought about rebranding several times, and I have friends, you know, that have cool stores of the name at the stores like gazelle, yeah, skinny raven, or you know what I mean? And we're salt like Debbie, why don't we do one of those ones? I know, I know. Salt Lake Running Company, it's so practical. It's like what do we got?

SPEAKER_07 1:07:05

Like grind shrimp something.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:07

I mean so we this our we like as we've adapted uh to our marketplace, to our to our customers, their needs, wants and desires. And our our theme for this year with our management team is for the customer. You know, we're we're starting next eight months, we're gonna read a book together called Unreasonable Hospitality, like what we can learn from the from the restaurant industry on how to meet the needs, wants, and desires of our customer. As a business, you have to make the adaptations to what the customers needs, wants, and desires. And I've been wrong a lot, and usually when that's when I'm wrong, it's like I'm advocating my personal desires over what I hear coming from the people that we serve every day. And it are servants to the community. So sometimes the name Sol Lake Running Company, and we go by SLRC, it kind of backs it off just a little bit, other than people like what is SLRC. It's like, well, it's kind of like REI, just different. You know what I mean? They gotta they still gotta work through that. Sorry, we're not Nike, the goddess of you know, victory. Like, sorry, we didn't get cool like that. And that's this holds us back from just saying, like, hey, if you work in the professional environment and you need and you're on your feet all day long, like a nurse, a doctor, a surgeon, and you want something awesome to stand in uh we can do that. If you're a waiter waitress, if you're a valet guy, you want something that's gonna hold. Up over time, blah blah blah, that you can move fast in, that's gonna breathe, it's gonna be black on black on black. We can meet your needs and all the stuff. And it's like, why would I go to Salt Lake Running Company? It's like because we got the stuff. If we can't get uh don't have it, then we we can acquire it and through the vendors that we we work with. But I think that's a a shift for me. Like if I had to start all over again, that is one thing I would I would I would I would change the name to myself.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:51

I would almost challenge you on that from a point that we talked about earlier, because like we talked about like the early retailers, however, it was like it was very it was a lot of possessives. Yeah, yeah. It's like this is my place. Very good Yeah, and where I mean it would have been easy to be like guy in Debbie's shoe store, like guy in like but it like the solid running company, it's like, hey, this is it's for you. It's here, we're here to serve you. Whether you want to take advantage of this like opportunity to have, I mean, great service, great products, someone that's gonna meet you where you are or not, like that's up to you. It's it's here as a service that we want to help do that and uh support you in whatever that might be, whether it be being the fastest ballet guy that's gonna have the shoes that last forever, or the person that finally is taking control of their life and either coming over addiction or you know, obesity or or just trying to move more, or name it. Yeah, they'll you'll meet you where you are. So I I think I think it's I like the name because it feels like it's fur here because you couldn't put some like running company in Denver, everybody's real confused.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:48

Yeah, but like, and so it's we have one in Centerville and it is confused. I know, yeah. And if we ever do something else beyond the Wall Satz front, people might be like, What are you doing? And and we would we don't want to. Well, and then that would be your chance to do your really, really cool thing. You have to do that. It's my chance to like to throw our business under the under the bus. And next thing you know, it's like guys a great idea. We're gonna rebrand, and then we're out of business. Right. It's and it's real, right? Yeah, but these are you just don't know what's gonna happen until you actually do it. So so I appreciate you saying that. And obviously, it's it's it's easier to say, oh, I wish I would have started differently, or if I could rebrand. Well, our and it's not, it is part of our DNA.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:24

It is, but but the irony is is that our original name was not Salt Lake Running Company, um, because there was an existing store that had liquidated because the owner moved to Texas. So we were able to assume the name and get that same like small beginning space. Um, it's called Sporting Souls, that's our corporate name.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:44

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:44

Yeah, and Souls is S-O-L-E-S. That's the bottom of a shoe, right? And so we still obviously that's still our corporate name, sporting souls doing business as. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:10:55

That's what I was saying.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:55

Salt Lake Running. And so, um, so I just I kind of laugh about that. Like, well, we did have a different name and we were like, oh, we don't like that name. Let's do what everybody else in the country right now is doing. We'll just call it Salt Lake Running because that's what the trend was at the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:08

But it's kind of funny that our corporate name is different.com because I just couldn't hack out my email guy at saltlakerunningco.com.com one more time. Literally, all the mistakes, all of the you modeled that how much time it's spent typing at the Wikipedia. Fixing that thing, and then stating that all our orders were over the phone, and you're uh spelling it. Yeah, you're spelling this in S as in Sam, A as in Alpha, L as in Yeah, I would have lost my mind. No, it's it was crazy. We did it way too long.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:46

Guy, why are you crying?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:47

SLRC is so much easier than code.com.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:51

Um saves a lot of space when you have to put any sign on a building. Yes, you know, SLRC. It's a better way to you know to to brand when Debbie doesn't have to spell salt like running company over every time. Everything's going on.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:02

Or staff shirt SLRC, right? Every time you come in. Yeah. Yeah, just SLRC.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:06

Easy enough.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:08

Um well I want to end with the two questions I always ask people at the end of each episode. Um, number one, if you could have someone on the Smalling City podcast and hear more about what they're up to in their story, who would you want to hear from?

SPEAKER_07 1:12:24

Um I'd kind of like to hear from Gormandives Bakery.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:32

I was there last week. That's like me and my mom's lunch spot. Is it?

SPEAKER_07 1:12:36

Oh yeah. Yeah, I'm kind of intrigued by it.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:12:38

And I know in recent years they've expanded and forever they were just the one.

SPEAKER_06 1:12:43

There's a couple places like around Salt Lake that have like always kind of been the one, and then all of a sudden, whoa, whoa, what are you doing growing? Like as long as you don't mess with your quality, we're good. But it's soon it's like anytime like a like one of my favorite restaurants, I mean honestly anything, gets bought by like a private equity company. I'm like, well, it was good while we lasted. Exactly. Like when Jimmy John's, not Jimmy John's, the other one, uh Jersey Mics got bought by some private. It was like, well, it was a good sandwich while it was. So yeah, no, Gordon D's is great. I'd love to talk to them.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:12

Yeah. Yeah, that's a great question. You'll have to edit some of this out.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:18

Oh, this is usually this the part I edit out. Like the amount of people that are like answering my ooh, touche. Yeah. But usually there's there's some space. And also, like, if you can't think of it, it's fine.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:26

Yeah. I I may have to get back to you. Wait, yeah, I'm just saying, like, I there are some uh the the I mean when you think about like my life, I grew up in the 80s and we watched in 1984, we watched the first woman that the US Olympic Committee allowed to participate in a marathon in the Olympics, right?

SPEAKER_06 1:13:54

I was 14, which is crazy, like it sounds like a long time ago, but also not that long ago.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:00

Like driving a horse and buggy, we're talking about a woman running a marathon, and I watched that happen in my lifetime. Wow, so when you think about that, you're like, wow, we've seen a lot. And one of the things we've seen is consolidation across uh across the mom and pop stores. Like there was a history of like you could have a little store in your community that you frequented, you knew speaking of private equity, yeah, you knew all of these people and you knew their lives and all that stuff, and that one by one is is like literally going away across America. And we have like we we have grown, like we have we have purchased uh several two slash three different times, depending on how you want to look at it, um, other people's businesses and consolidate. So we've been a part of that. So I'm talking out of one side of my mouth, but the battle every single day is how do we stay connected to the community? So when you think about like any business that's been around 20, 30, 40, 50, 100 years in our market that has fought that battle and won, I would love to hear from yeah, anyways, because they've been through a lot, yeah, to stay connected.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:10

And sometimes you you can do it, and sometimes you you probably can, like if you were uh making a well, and as we were having this discussion, yeah, and we were having this discussion just a couple of days ago, and over the last probably six months, it's really kind of hit home to me, like in our desire to just serve, continue to serve the communities here that are growing, you know, there's other opportunities that like could open up, you know, um, when you're talking like Saratoga Springs or, you know, out in the Harriman Daybreak area or something like that. But the reality is, and this is happening in other cities in America that are sprawling as well. Um, one gentleman I talked to from a store called Athletic Annex in the Midwest, having the same issue expanding, which is all of the new new stuff, the new construction, when they put in new retail centers, you know, which the community needs, you know, the commercial builders that come in are kind of bound by whatever it costs to build whatever it is that they're building. And they usually, in most regards, spare no expense because it's new communities and they look really nice. They're probably twice as tall as they really need to be, you know what I mean? And there's just a lot of money spent. And that means that people that are the small, real local businesses um really struggle getting into these new communities because like the price per square is double of, you know, something that's existed for decades. You know what I mean? Because it was way cheaper to build that. So, so the people who own the older properties, you know what I mean, can charge, can charge less, right?

SPEAKER_08 1:16:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:47

So um, so yeah, it's just kind of a fascinating stage of development that I feel like I'm sure other, well, I know other parts of the country are in.

SPEAKER_08 1:16:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:16:57

When it comes to like the local, you know, mom and pop or whatever, like how hard it is to go out there, especially when it's a retail business and you have a cost of goods.

SPEAKER_08 1:17:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:07

You know, it's a lot easier if you're that cool, you know, like a Gorman dies, where, you know, where the food costs aren't, you know, this as much as like, you know, a shoe, a wholesale shoe cost. Percentage-wise. Percentage-wise, you know, on the PL, for example.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:20

So margins are much higher. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:23

They've got a lot more room to work with, like in any of the food businesses or or any business that's a service-oriented business, you know, like some of the um like the hot cold therapy stuff that are out there. This is a service. Like you put in the stuff, you pay for like the sauna and the the tubs, and you pay for it.

SPEAKER_06 1:17:39

But not as capital intensive as need for much cash flow as much cash flow as a right.

SPEAKER_07 1:17:44

So it's been kind of a bummer to kind of look at what's going on, even if we as we've looked at our possibilities and been like, ugh, wow, this would require actually a change in our own business model, like the way that we lay out our stores. If we ever went to one of these places, we can't have the footprint that we have. And the community has to get big enough, you know, to have enough people to support obviously the gross sales that we would have to have to pay for that kind of lease.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:13

Yeah. And that's what I've heard that similarly, especially like in Food and Bev, where I mean these developers already have these deals with these huge like national chains, and they can pay the fifth. I mean, I don't even know the numbers, but like$50 per square foot. We're like, we can't do anything north of 20. It's like, oh, it's too bad. Yeah, exactly. You just signed a 10-year deal. Yeah. And you're like, cool. Like it's real.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:32

It's real. But the developers gotta make money too, right? And they and cement costs so much a yard and lumber costs so much a foot, and that's the way it is, and land is not cheap anymore.

SPEAKER_06 1:18:41

And and that's one thing I've liked about, I mean, the best example locally is sugarhouse right now, where you had like the sugar house I was growing up and raised in, um, kind of like, I mean, I guess the like it still is like around Olympics time, which is where they I mean developed a lot, put in all these name brand places, did good, and then everybody kind of like started trickling out. And then now, within the last like four or five years, local places have started to take back and it's gotten a lot more of its soul back in there. So I there's like definitely economic cycles to it that I'm for sure, but it's like it doesn't help when you want to be there with this growth, supporting the community when instead you're like, I guess we'll wait. Like, yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:17

Yeah, because people say, Why why don't you? And it's like we we'd love to.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:21

Yeah, we've had people reach out to us from the Saratoga.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:24

Listen, you send me the financial model where this puts it makes sense, we're there until then.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:30

My my my quick you know, quote back is like, it doesn't pencil, period.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:35

If we lose 10 grand a year, we can do this.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:37

Yeah, really.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:44

Um about Salt Lake Running Company, uh, what's the best place, whether like social media, website, and or other?

SPEAKER_02 1:19:51

SLRC.com. Sierra Lima Romeo Charlie.com.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:56

This isn't Sam.

SPEAKER_07 1:19:57

LS I know. Or Instagram.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:01

What's the handle on Instagram?

SPEAKER_07 1:20:02

Uh at Salt Lake Running.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:04

Okay. Yeah. Salt Lake Running SLRC.com. Appreciate that you only have four letters to type in, and it's a lot harder to make errors than Salt Lakerunningco.com. Yeah. But no, guys, it's been great. Thank you so much for all that you guys do for the community. Like it's it's fun to see. I mean, I know you both are desensitized to it because you've been doing it for so long and so in the trenches and have to deal with all the other things that come with it, but it's fun to see how much all that you do supports the community, welcomes people to come here, and it's been fun to see how much like it's been in my life, but then also seeing it in other people's lives too. So thank you so much for all you do and keep it up.

SPEAKER_08 1:20:40

My mom has tell her thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:44

Yes. I'll send you the bell. I'm just kidding. It would be interesting to see how many, how many pairs of shoes anyway, just be like, mom, you've spent five, it's like 70 grand here over years.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:56

Probably too far from that.

Guest Recommendations And Where To Find SLRC

SPEAKER_02 1:20:58

We integrated our system so we could no longer tell her we lost we lost all our data when we we lost everything but five years of data when we transferred over. Because they literally said we cannot bring all this data. We ran everything on the same system.

SPEAKER_07 1:21:10

Yeah, all this data was awesome. That was 2023. Yeah, we couldn't that would break my heart.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:16

You'd be like, Yeah, this person is a this person is a is a is a life customer, and the life customer is worth a lot a lot. They don't come around very often.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:24

No wild. Oh, that'd be so sad to be like, oh, cool. Yeah, like please, you can't just give me like a CSV or something. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_06 1:21:36

No, thank you, you guys. Like it's so like I said, I don't like talking it about I guess just some like every time I come across like a reel or a TikTok or something, it's like, I mean, obviously for like a clip of a podcast, and it's like if you could go back and give yourself business advice when you started, what would it be?

SPEAKER_04 1:21:52

Like, I mean just like some of like the kitschy sort of questions like it's yeah, it's annoying.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:57

Like, tell me tell me the fun stuff. I don't care about business around. I mean it's to an extent, but it was a person, it wasn't gonna be something else.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:06

Yeah, have you ever interviewed the guys at Wasatch Touring before?

SPEAKER_05 1:22:10

That's who I was thinking about.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:11

Yeah, because that's that's that's the one I would do because I was thinking about like I uh we would come from Elko to Salt Lake City, and when I first got into sport, I don't know how I ended up discovering Wasatch Touring, and we would go to Wasatch Touring to get stuff at Wasatch Touring. You couldn't get one thing we got was uh this thing called a boda belt. It was literally uh they have like uh they have boda bags which you carry water in. It was a belt you strapped around and had like a plastic buckle, but you just filled it with water so you could disappear into the back the backcountry and just carried water around your waist. And they had this thing that the boda belt, and they're still around, and that was like in the mid-80s.

SPEAKER_06 1:22:52

Because I know because I think the original owner was Riley Cutler. Because I listed friends of my said dad. And I think it changed ownership semi-recently.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:02

Oh, yeah, I don't even know. They had to survive, man. One store on the corner, they probably own they probably own their property, makes a big different picture than you. Oh, yeah, oh yeah.