S1, E100: SLUG Mag/ Craft Lake City - Angela Brown

A family secret. A fork in the road. A choice that reshaped Utah’s creative landscape. Angela Brown joins us to share how a canyon kid with a camera became the force behind SLUG Magazine and the founder of Craft Lake City, turning a tiny zine and a DIY idea into two of the region’s most influential cultural platforms.

We trace Angela’s path from Emigration Canyon to darkrooms and record stores, where photography and music collided into a calling. When a San Francisco promotion beckoned, a life-changing conversation with her father redirected everything. She stayed, bought SLUG, and spent years delivering stacks, selling ads, shooting shows, and editing late into the night—while caregiving at home. Along the way, we dig into the post–9/11 Olympics, how Salt Lake’s “underground” expanded, and what it takes to build a publication that still champions outsiders without gatekeeping genre or taste.

Then we pivot to Craft Lake City: why Angela launched it, how it blurs the line between artisan and artist, and the systems that make creativity accessible—affordable markets, hands-on workshops, STEM spaces, and even a fully virtual festival world when the city needed it most. We talk sponsors who believed early, volunteers who became pros, and the small army now powering a statewide ecosystem. Expect candid insights on scaling teams, nurturing writers and photographers, and keeping art in reach for regular people.

If you care about local music, independent media, maker culture, or the future of Salt Lake City, this conversation is a blueprint. Tap play, share with a friend who loves DIY, and tell us the one risk that changed your path. And if you enjoyed the episode, subscribe, rate, and leave a review so more creators can find the show.

50% Off Minky Couture Blankets: softminkyblankets.com/SMALLLAKECITY

Please be sure to like, review, follow, subscribe and share the podcast with your friends and family! See you next time 

Chapters

• 0:00 Host Intro And Angela’s Role
• 3:36 Work-Life Design And Creative Boundaries
• 8:38 Why The Underground Matters In Salt Lake
• 11:33 Growing Up In Emigration Canyon
• 16:48 Discovering SLUG And Questioning Faith
• 22:53 High School Shifts And Early City Exposure
• 28:28 Finding Photography And Mentors
• 31:58 Music Retail, Shooting Bands, First Byline
• 36:13 Becoming SLUG’s Managing Editor
• 41:03 The Promotion, The Secret, The Decision
• 46:53 Taking Over SLUG And Grinding
• 52:23 Surviving 2002 And A Changing City
• 57:38 Mission: Amplify Outsiders And Creatives
• 1:02:03 Evolving Underground And Genre Lines
• 1:07:23 From Pager Days To A Full Team
• 1:10:58 Why Craft Lake City Exists
• 1:16:33 Making Art Accessible And Local

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:53

And one day he brought home a slug magazine and I opened it up and it was like, oh my god, there's this whole other local world. I knew there was something else. I always loved, I was just drawn to photography. So I got that promotion. 30 days I moved to San Francisco and I accept this job. Let me tell you something. And I was like, okay, what's up? And he was like, uh got this family secret that I haven't known how to tell anyone. So I'm gonna stay. I'm gonna take over Slug Magazine. I'm gonna help transition you. I learned I learned so much.

SPEAKER_02: 1:23

What is up, everybody, and welcome back to another episode of the Small Lake City Podcast. I'm your host, Eric Nielsen, and this week's guest is Slug Magazine's very own Angela Brown. Now, Angela Brown has been the executive editor for Slug Magazine since before the adoption of the internet. Now, she has seen this business change from a team of three people to now a team of over a hundred people, including all of the volunteers that help support her. Not only has she made Slug Magazine into what it is today, she also created Craft Lake City, a festival involved with bringing creators together and championing them in their own respective craft. So great conversation with her, born and raised in Immigration Canyon. But let's jump into it and hope you enjoy. Like I'm a big believer in like day job, like I don't love. Like it's not that's not the passion. Yeah. But I like it enough that it takes care of my life and livelihood and gives me something that I don't want to bang my head against.

SPEAKER_00: 2:18

And and you could probably clock in and clock out. Yeah. Like as opposed to like 10 o'clock at night Saturday morning or something.

SPEAKER_02: 2:24

Well, and that was one thing that um, like when I started that job, I mean that was only in February. And so when I was interviewing for it, he's like, Well, tell me about you. I'm like, by the way, I'm not a morning person, I'm not gonna work East Coast hours. My ADHD is in a way that I can't sit down in front of a computer for nine hours. So I like to take breaks. I also host a podcast, so sometimes I'm gonna have to take a break during the middle of the day to go record, but I'll make up for it when I can like just later in the day or at different times. And if you feel like things aren't working, like let me know. Yeah. He's like, Yeah, sounds like you know what you're doing, so go do it. So it's nice where and he just kind of gives me the freedom and autonomy and I do it.

SPEAKER_00: 2:58

That's great. So he's not like you only worked 36 hours.

SPEAKER_02: 3:02

Oh god. If I had if if if he was that person, I would not be employed by him.

SPEAKER_00: 3:07

Cool. He's just like, get the job done, cursive money.

SPEAKER_02: 3:10

Exactly. Crazy concept. But no, it works out. And then like I don't know, it's been fun to like where I have work, it's like, yeah, it's fine, it is what it is. Like I'll never be the person that just like makes the career your entire personality.

SPEAKER_00: 3:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 3:23

But it's fun to have but you kind of are though with this, right? Yeah, well, that's like the thing I was gonna say is like I did this started off as like this passion project slash like itch that I didn't know at the time how much I needed to scratch.

SPEAKER_03: 3:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 3:36

And then as this has just become such a of its own thing, it's like, oh, like, uh, okay. Like now I have both of these things, like even until recently, I like like released a poster on Instagram about it, set it in the newsletter, and said it on like the Tuesday update I do every Tuesday. But I'm like, there's a lot going on in my life right now, and I just kind of need to like pause, chill, and just kind of reset, reconnect, re-rethink things. And so that's where it's like, all right, let's do a clean cut for season one. Take a couple months, focus on other things, take a breath. I mean, even not just like this and work, but then like mean just general state of the world is a lot, and I try not to let it make me be a lot, but then it's yeah, it is a lot. Um, so just trying to take care of myself.

SPEAKER_00: 4:18

Cool.

SPEAKER_02: 4:19

Good job. It's only one person can only one person will ever care about me as much as they need to, and it's me.

SPEAKER_00: 4:24

It's true.

SPEAKER_02: 4:25

So little by little.

SPEAKER_00: 4:27

Good job.

SPEAKER_02: 4:27

Yeah. And I'm excited because I'm excited too. Cause like so, so first things first, one thing that I will always pride myself on, well not pride myself on, but like I'm never interested in the shiny side of Salt Lake. Like, I'm not the person who, like, I was talking to a friend who, I mean, he lives in Federal Heights. He's he has a name that's on a lot of buildings around the University of Utah campus, like a great friend of mine. And then we were talking about where we live, and I was like, Oh, I live like in Marmalade District. And they're like, Well, I hear that there's just so many meth. I'm like, not really. I mean, I see a homeless person talking to himself every now and then, and it's up and coming, and there's great things and great people, but like I'm always so much more interested in like the underbelly. Like, I'd rather go grab a new sweatshirt at the heavy metal shop than try to go to uh anthropology at the mall and try to find something that works with a nice candle to pair. And which my mom is always just like, no, I just don't understand why you're doing this sort of thing. And I'm like, mother, listen, that's okay. You don't have to understand everything. And so, I mean, slug itself, Salt Lake Underground, is always been, I mean, for over almost 30 years. No.

SPEAKER_00: 5:27

37 in February.

SPEAKER_02: 5:28

Yeah. Cause I was thinking since it was in your tenure, well, you started in 97, which we'll get to, and then took over the helm of in 2000.

SPEAKER_00: 5:36

Yeah. Um You've done your research like that.

SPEAKER_02: 5:38

I d honestly, I did more than I usually do. Like you, like I I like to be, I don't like to be very prepared because I like to like just discover things on the fly because it's more fun for everybody. Um, but it's been interesting because like that's always been kind of like I mean, you go to the the gas station, you go to the grocery store, you go to your favorite store, and there's always like a slug stand there. And so it's kind of always one of these background things. And then as I've gotten to know people better, talk to people more, and just experienced them more, it's like, oh, like they're the ones that kind of talk about the things that nobody else talks about and have been doing it for longer than people have been talking about talking about things.

SPEAKER_00: 6:12

It's a lifestyle. It is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 6:14

So excited to hear more about it, and especially from your perspective of it all um in in all of it. But because I don't know, actually I didn't even do my research on this, but are you even originally from Salt Lake? I am okay. Born and raised. Where at?

SPEAKER_00: 6:26

Uh so what neighborhood?

SPEAKER_02: 6:28

Yeah, I mean, just yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me about that.

SPEAKER_00: 6:31

I'd love to. Yeah, I grew up in Emigration Canyon. Well, uh, but this is all before. Yeah, this is a little bit before what it is now, which it's still great now. Yes. Um, but it back then it was it was full of hippies and uh an LDS community. And I was part of the LDS community with my family. Make sense. And yeah, it was a great place to grow up. Um, not not nearly as many, probably like I'd say at least a half of what the population is up there now. Um, but it was also kind of isolating. But you know, I didn't mind that. Uh but it really gave me a great appreciation for nature. And you know, Immigration Canyon is really like it's like a five, 10 minute drive from the University of Utah campus and like 20 minutes from downtown. So it's really the best of both worlds. You get all this beautiful nature and then you get city life too.

SPEAKER_02: 7:17

Yeah, and it's been fun to see how it's changed over time because like even when I was growing up, like I knew it was there. I knew that it kind of had this weird back connection to get to uh I-80. Yeah, in Park City in Park City, but I never really experienced it. And then there's a period in my life like seven-ish years ago where I mean road biking a lot. And so, and if you're oh yeah, a cyclist in Utah, you're right, I'm up and down immigration all day every day. And so that's when it's like I had like my little markers because everybody knows about roots, and now everybody knows about immigration brewing, and then you have like the fire station on the left, and then you keep going, and then you have the the um uh switchbacks, and you get to the top, and and so it's been fun to see how that's changed, but it's also become this place where I feel like it's like where a lot of people build like their retirement home or like their drain home because it's there's a lot of lots and it's just like an easy place to find land, and now that's turning into like Huntsville and some of these other kind of hot spots. But before that it was just like like you said, it was either Canyon folk. Exactly. And so I'm I jealous because like there was one point um in like I guess I quote past life where I was like, I think it'd be fun to buy land there, build, or buy a house there.

SPEAKER_00: 8:22

And then now that's like it's like um might need to keep saving up now. Yeah, yeah. They used to call us canyon kids. In fact, they'd make fun of us because so we were in between school districts, so they would ship uh ship us, so they would buzz buzz us um to granite school districts. So that's like the skyline, like East New York because those uh school districts were waning in population, and then the downtown school districts at the time were still pretty full. Yeah, and so um, so that's kind of how the city navigated it. So we ended up being bussed out there. Um, and then also kids from Sandy would get bussed into those schools. So sometimes I'd have friends that like lived out in Draper and Sandy. Interesting. And um, that was interesting too. Yeah, but Canyon kids is what they call them. They kind of make fun of us, you know. You country bumpkins, country bumpkin kids.

SPEAKER_02: 9:06

We're like, what's yeah, that's pretty cool. Uh like it's like interesting on the topic or side tangent of like high school line. Because there was someone who's asked me the other day, they're like, No, as um SLC's aka Bryant Heath was posted about he's like, Oh, here's a sign for East High all the way over in like the middle of Glendale. And someone was like, Well, that doesn't make sense. How's okay? Okay, get while you're frustrated, but it really comes down to because there used to be East, West, and South. Yeah, and then South shut down. Yep. And there was, and I actually need to validate this because I've just heard the story so many times of like there was like this class presidents of all these schools, and like, well, how do we divide this up? And like everybody was kind of like, Oh, well, we don't want to take the West side of like East Highland, um uh East Highland West. Yeah. And then all of a sudden they're like, All right, like we'll take this, you take that, you take this, which I mean again leads to everybody getting bussed in from, I mean, across the entire city to get there. But it's just kind of like one of those weird like things that you don't realize, which plays into you guys getting bust there because these schools are full. And then now in today it's like these are all these schools are shutting down because no one's having families anymore. Right.

SPEAKER_00: 10:10

There's more dogs in Salt Lake City proper than kids. And I haven't trolled to that. I contribute to both of those, actually. One kid, one dog, one cat.

SPEAKER_02: 10:17

Yeah, one in one works out pretty good. Um so born-raised immigration, yeah, canyon kid. Um so talk to me about I mean what I mean, the the next phase of life was like even after Skyline. Did you always think you were gonna be a photographer, editor, yeah, work in a magazine?

SPEAKER_00: 10:33

Or well, so maybe so when I was growing up in Immigration Canyon, actually, uh, you know, I mentioned it was a little bit isolating. Yes. And that's actually when I discovered Slug magazine because you know, I grew up in this really conservative LDS household. And um, you know, growing up in the canyon, there you weren't really taught much other than what you were kind of taught. And it was hard to have access to the outside world. I mean, this is pre-internet, right? And so, you know, there were mail or mail order catalogs, magazines you could get, things like that. But um, you know, again, like coming living in a conservative LDS household, um, you had to work hard to like figure out what else was out there. And I just always had this feeling that like, gosh, this isn't this isn't for me. You know, um, there's gotta be something else than what I'm being shown. And so um, we actually my my cousin Jared was kind of a rebellious uh teenager and he he was he couldn't live with his parents and he was um he applied to Westminster, got accepted. And so my mom was like, Oh, let's have in love with us, you know. And so at the time he was into really incredible music, you know, the music of like the 80s and the 90s, you know, new way, new wave, punk, grunge, you know, hardcore. So I learned a lot of music from him, and then one day he brought home a slug magazine. And you know, I was like 12 years old or something, and I was like, wow, this is really incredible. And I opened it up and it was like, oh my God, there's this whole other local world. I knew there was something else, you know. And so, uh, so he would like feed me slug magazines. And so that was my first exposure to it. And then, you know, I also simultaneously just felt like um the gospel doctrine that I was learning at the time just wasn't for me. And so I was kind of able to negotiate with my parents what it would look like if I stopped going to church.

SPEAKER_02: 12:12

Yeah. And how old was this? Because that's like a lot of like like uh like emotional, social, and like spiritual awareness to be like, all right, all right, family, listen. So uh no more focal morning. I got this slug magazine. Yeah, great, cool. I'll still do my triores, still do good grades.

SPEAKER_00: 12:25

But well, I brokered a deal with my dad.

SPEAKER_02: 12:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 12:27

And you know, my mom, she growing up, she uh had um a bipolar disorder. She was um manic depressive, um, actually schizophrenic as well. And so she was in and out of a lot of mental institutions and on a lot of different antipsychotics. One time she's on every single antidepressant that had been out on the market. Just a very complicated, you know, case. And that's also, you know, this is like 70s, 80s, 90s. This is also when mental health was just coming on the scene, you know, because it's really is still a pretty new industry. And um, so she was gone a lot. And so I had a lot of, even though I came from a family of six kids, like I had a lot of kind of like solitary time to think and like think about myself and you know, the world that I wanted to live in and how I wanted what I wanted to do. And so I brokered a deal with my dad. And so I said, Hey, um, you know, I really don't want to go to church. And he was like, Okay, well, I don't care if you don't go to church as long as you're going to some church. So if you can make a commitment to go to some sort of church on a Sunday, it doesn't have to be LDS. And so and I had quite a few friends that weren't LDS. And so uh, you know, I went and it gave me a really great experience to go to a Protestant church, go to a Catholic church, um, you know, go to a Baptist, go even went to a synagogue, you know, and so that was kind of fun to just at that age be open up to all these different types of spirituality and religion, but none of it really resonated with me.

SPEAKER_02: 13:46

So a real modern-day Joseph Smith.

SPEAKER_00: 13:51

Well, so I how how I solved the problem next was I got a job. So so at like age 13, I got a job uh that that at a movie theater working on Sundays. So there was which movie theater? Um it was at Charlie Square, it's no longer there. Yeah, but at Charlie's Charlie Square. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. So that was kind of fun. But but yeah, I just I always knew that I was an outsider. I always knew that I just didn't fit in. And slug really was kind of like a vehicle as a young person to help me kind of um, I guess, come up with a vernacular for that.

SPEAKER_02: 14:21

Yeah. I mean, because especially if you're so used to this, I mean, there's like parts of your life at the time, which I imagine are very uh predictable, like I mean the religious structure, the conservative nature, but then you also have this like opposite end of the spectrum of this chaotic agent of your mother, which can be she's there, she's not there, she's I mean, having a manic episode, she's not having a manic episode. Yeah. And so to be able to say like have another anchor outside of that that you don't even know. Because again, it's like at the time where the only things you can really embrace are the community that you have, which would at that time be your family religion, but be because you're so physically separated from other things, it's not like you can just go walk around the neighborhood. Yes. To go interact with the population around you until you have this thing that's almost like this gateway into this other world that you don't even understand.

SPEAKER_00: 15:06

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 15:06

But then being able to understand that and then have um have that open up your perspective. Because again, like today it's so easy for people to be like, Oh, cool, I can search whatever on TikTok, I can open up Instagram and the algorithm be like, oh, this is what we think you want or need, which is a whole nother topic.

SPEAKER_00: 15:19

Right. Or you can connect with the community digitally so easily. Yeah, and when you couldn't really do that yet. Yeah, it's just kind of isn't that weird to think about life pre pre-social media, pre-internet, you know, all of that.

SPEAKER_02: 15:30

Like I'm old enough that I'd know that it existed, but I'm not like I watch, for example, I watch Friends, I think I watched all the way through, like almost 10 years ago, which is a wild number to say. But anyway, like it was weird to be like see how many times they opened up the newspaper and to be like, like there's movies, there's there's comics, there's I mean sports, news, like all these things. I'm like, oh, but now there's like an app for each and every single one of those. Yeah. And so just even just like thinking about like that like part of things, it's it it's like I know it happened, but sometimes I forget that it did or like remember what that was like. Yeah. But so so you're working in a movie theater, you're having more exposure downtown, you understand slug. I mean, what was that next kind of phase of like quote Rosarian or finding like that path for the city?

SPEAKER_00: 16:14

Well, so then, you know, kind of the isolation, having a job. Um, when I turned 16, I was able to um purchase a car, and then I was able to use that as leverage to switch school districts because I wanted to get downtown to the city, right? So I switched to East High. And so what you're talking about with those school districts and the closure of South High, yeah, that's when they started, when I was going to East, they started bossing all the kids up from the west side, which was actually really wonderful because it added a lot of diversity.

SPEAKER_03: 16:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 16:42

And it did bring in more of that kind of like big city um atmosphere that I was looking for, uh, which, you know, um in a salt lake version. But, you know, on my first day of school, ninth grade, um, I think one of the coaches was shot by some gang violence, you know, out on the field, like shot in his leg. Um so it was, it was definitely very different in the suburban um, you know, kind of like schooling that I was in before. But it was, but it was it was also exciting. It was, it was um, it was a fun place to to really go to school with in the sense that uh I was just close to downtown. And then I got involved in concurrent enrollment at Salt Community College, so I could leave high school half day and go to college and hang out with um more adult-oriented, career-oriented, you know, find the artists, find people that were really excited about um creating. And that was so fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 17:34

Yeah. I mean, especially to just have your like horizon broaden and broaden even more. Like, because I went, I went to East as well. Oh, nice. And like I didn't realize until after of how because I remember when I went there, it like on the website was like the most diverse school in Utah. And I like didn't really understand what that meant until I really sat with it. But I was like, oh, we have like all of these Bosnian refugees, which is another whole topic of how that happened. And then we had all these like African refugees. We had, I mean, Federal Heights, Yellcrest, area, foothill, some of the richest kids in the valley. But then you have everybody from Glendale, uh like all the Tongans, the Hispanic kids getting bust for over there. So like I didn't even understand how much that opened for me. But even then, I was still just like blinders up and only really interacted with my friends. And even at East, like there's a whole I don't know if it's still, I mean, I assume it does. Things never change like that, but like the hierarchy of like classes, but then also like like you don't really notice like the race and like class part of things until you take it. Like someone like oh there's a Facebook post that someone posted, like this gotta be somewhere around 10 years ago. But they're like, I'm gonna call it out for what it is. Like, if you were a white kid at East, that's where you sat. If you're a senior, if you're a junior, if you're a sophomore, if you're a freshman. If you're not white, then you sit down on the floor with everybody else. And if you're like, and I was like, Oh my god, like I didn't even realize of course I didn't realize it was Guy Gunn. I was a 16, 17, 18-year-old idiot.

SPEAKER_03: 18:48

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 18:49

But it's like those things you don't even realize that were going on at that time. Sure. But thankfully, like I was someone in like I like what you were saying, how you always felt like you always felt like the outsider wanted to be the outsider and connected with all of these things that were kind of like pulled you more and more away from the core that you knew. Whether that be your family unit, like the the the school you're supposed to go to. And then even then you're like, I'm gonna go do concurrent enrollment, I'm gonna go find everybody else. Yeah, like I was almost the opposite in that I found myself partially in every single group. Cause like I was a kid who like, I mean, I played aid lacrosse the entire school year. So I would hang out with, I mean, like the quote like jock kids, and I've lived in Yellowcrest with my um, and like, and so I like had my friends that are all come from like very wealthy families, but then I also would like go like smoke weed with all like the skater we can like punk kids, and we would go do that. And then I was also in like the school play every year, so I'd always go be with like the Thespian kids, yeah. And so like I was always this person who could kind of relate and sit down and talk and interact and feel home with so many people, and like even in my life, I've always felt like a lone wolf because of that. Cause like I've always had like people, but never had like a tribe, so to speak. Like, I've never had like a core group that's like this is my people. It's like, ah, you're gonna you're all my people, you know?

SPEAKER_00: 19:57

Yeah, you can fit in with anyone, but at the same time, you're still a lone wolf.

SPEAKER_02: 20:01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00: 20:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 20:01

And like it didn't, I mean, I didn't even put all of that together until years of therapy and being like, oh, this is a habit. And like I never felt really, I don't want to say comfortable at home, but I never wanted to be home. Yeah, it's like even when like when I was really young, my my mom before she got divorced from her first husband, family like was just kind of chaotic. And I I didn't recognize it then, but there's just like an energy I didn't want to be around. So I'd either go across the street to the Jewish family where they had like two computers they played game video games on and like every video game system possible. So I'm like, yeah, I'm going over there. Yeah. Or I'd go bike around the skull de sack and the German family up the street. Or anyway, like I would just always want to get away. And then when I moved down to kind of like Yellcrest area, I'd always kind of have like a best friend that I'd like just go over to their house every day after school and we'd hang out. That's what it was. Maybe go home for dinner, maybe dinner there. But I didn't like realize this habit of just being like, Oh, I just really want to be home. Because even when I was there, my oldest sister was a senior in high school. My next oldest sister was a freshman in high school. My mom was a single mom trying to like make everything work out for us and give us the best life possible. So I just found myself home alone a lot.

SPEAKER_00: 21:01

There's so much mad respect for single moms. Oh my gosh. Like my husband sometimes travels, and so I'll be a single mom for a night or a week, or you know, I'm just like, oh my God, how do they do it?

SPEAKER_02: 21:12

Totally. And it's wild because like even when I was a kid, like I didn't I mean, again, you're only as aware as you can be aware. And so I was a pain in the ass for my mother. I'll be the first to say it. But then as I see friends of mine who are now single mothers, family of mine who are single mothers, I'm like, I don't know. Like I can barely take care of my own world.

SPEAKER_00: 21:31

Right. Well, and how many siblings did you have?

SPEAKER_02: 21:33

So I have two older sisters and then three older stepbrothers and an older stepbrother.

SPEAKER_00: 21:37

So how when she was a single mom, how many kids was she responsible for? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 21:41

So three. So yeah, and I would the so when they first got divorced, I was 10. Yeah, like 10, 14, 17, like using rough.

SPEAKER_00: 21:47

Right. And she was probably working full time.

SPEAKER_02: 21:48

Yeah, she working full-time, and then was taking uh I think at least she so she's a pediatrician, so at least had like a great career. Yeah. But even at the same time, like she still had to take extra shifts at like the New More ICU at and primary children's, which I remember I would always go. Cause it was like you got your little hotel room and the TV, and I'd get a chocolate donut in the morning on the way out.

SPEAKER_00: 22:04

Oh, that's cute.

SPEAKER_02: 22:05

Loved it. But now I like looking like you liked sitting in a hotel, like in a hospital overnight, like psycho. Um but but yeah, in in like that, because that was like the world I found myself in. And then in even more so in that, like the biggest thing I ever did, probably most consistently in my life throughout my youth, was like rollerblading. And I'd always like, again, I'd be the kid down. You were a fruit booter. I was. Yeah. And I would like would always find myself like so around downtown trying to find spots or like with like this different population that I was ever introduced to. And because like I just felt drawn to that. Like I didn't want to go to church every Sunday. I didn't want to be part of this like perfect, polished thing. I wanted, I was like, show me the underground, show me the rough, show me, show me everything else. So I I can definitely understand like that draw to it. But so you're so you're at East High School, you're doing all these concurrent classes, and I mean, is that because I know that there's like a piece of finding photography in all of this, which is how you got into slug. I mean, where did you find this creative outlet?

SPEAKER_00: 23:00

Well, I've always been into photography, and I mean, there's actually this really cute family portrait of myself and two of my siblings. And um, I'm three in the photo and I'm holding a little toy camera. Like I always loved, I was just drawn to photography always as a kid. And my dad would let me borrow his camera sometimes and like, you know, slide me a roll of film and let me shoot it and then go process it for me. But you know, that was pretty expensive. So I didn't have access to that all the time. So that when it was an elective in high school, you know, jumped for that opportunity. And in fact, um the uh the photography teacher there, Mrs. Frascotti, she was awesome. She actually was also like um a lesbian too, which was super cool. Um, because you know, this is in the 90s, you know. So there was a it was not a lot of people were out. And she was, she wasn't like fully screaming out, but she was pretty out. Um, and she was really kind and she she kind of saw that I had a talent for it and a knack for it and that I loved it. And she would let me come into my lunch hour and print in the dark room and process my film. She would even like kind of like turn her head if I skipped class. And but I mean, I was a straight A student and I was in like honors classes and stuff like that. But and so um, so yeah, so she was always supportive, which was great. And then when I was able to go down to the Select Community College half day and just spent time learning from the team down there, which they had a great team, better than the University of Utah is actually ironically. Um that just really did leaps and bounds for my skills and my career. And then and I just, you know, j just was so excited to learn. Just couldn't couldn't learn enough, just would soak it all up.

SPEAKER_02: 24:33

And talk to me about how you draw drew these two dots of you have this passion for photography, you've had this data point or points of slug magazine, and at what point did these two worlds?

SPEAKER_00: 24:43

Sure. Well, I was also the editor of our literary arts magazine at um East High. Okay. And I loved to write. I was a good writer. Um, and then I loved music too. So I was obsessed with music. And I got a job at music retail at this pretty cool record store called Modified Music. And it was on the ninth and ninth corridor. And it was a music that specialized in importing in CDs. Um, and you know, at the time, you know, this pre-Napster, pre-Spotify, all of that, uh, it was really hard to get a lot of really obscure, interesting music. You had to have it have it like imported in, right? And it was really expensive too. It was like$25,$30 to get a CD, you know, back in like the 90s. And so uh I was a customer of this place and made it a goal to get a job there, got a job there, which was really awesome. Um, and then I also started working for um a c uh for a represent I was represented for a record company for Mammoth Records. So uh and so I was their their Utah rep doing that. Um and so then as I kind of like left East High School and kind of merged into the workforce, working music retail, working for record companies, uh shooting um local bands on the side for extra cash, and then also uh doing getting into journalism. Um, it was so fun because it it really when I was able to shoot bands and music, I was um combining my love of music and photography together. So that was that was pretty fun.

SPEAKER_02: 26:08

Cool. I mean, I always love when like so one of my friends, he's Chris, he's one of the guys behind the Instagram account, SLC Scoop. And like he saw that he's like, I want to be involved in music, but it's like it's like such an ambiguous thing to get involved with because it's like okay, like are you gonna create music? Are you gonna do a roadie? Do you want to go like do sound at a a venue or something? And then so he's like, I'll do photography. And it's like then then now fast forward, he's on tour with I mean Youngboy NBA, one of the biggest up-and-coming rappers in the world right now, and it's just like, yeah, like create the world you want to, put the put the path in front of yourself and make it happen.

SPEAKER_03: 26:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 26:43

And so I love that you were like able to find these two things, like, yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna put these together. I mean, and especially like there's always a big aspect of slug that is music and like music so yeah. Um, like when I think of like two local, like quote, brands that feel very synonymous, it's like slug and like the heavy metal shop. Um, just like feel very like they I feel like if they had a con like if the two brands if they were personified, hear me out. Like they could sit and have coffee and like they would Oh yes, love Kevin.

SPEAKER_00: 27:09

Kevin from the Heavy Metal Shop, dear friend.

SPEAKER_02: 27:11

Yeah, Kevin is uh I love Kevin. Like Kevin is so his two boys, Kelly and uh Joey. So Joey was one of my first best friends. In uh fourth grade, we had the same teacher, and he actually going back to rollerblade, and he's like, Hey, I'm gonna go to the skate park this weekend and go rollerblade. Do you want to come with me? And for some reason I had like had gone to play to get in sports and got my hair. I was like, I want to do this. Yes. And like became one of my best friends, and then I moved when my parents got divorced after that, and then it wasn't until 2018 when I get a call from a friend that went to West. And he's like, Hey man, do you have a second? Like, what's up? He's like, just so you know, I want to be the one to tell you. But Joey was struck by tracks, passed away, and I was like, and I was living in Seattle at the time. I was like, oh my god, like okay. All right, like process that. And then I was like, all right, when I'm in Salt Lake, I'm gonna go visit and say hi to Kevin. And then yeah, yeah, yeah. Like that never happened. And then fast forward to 2022, early that year is when Angie, Kevin, his wife passed away from cancer. And that's when I was like, now I have to. So I went in and I was like, Hey Kevin, you probably don't remember me. It like took him a second because I was like this slot, I was a kid.

SPEAKER_00: 28:19

And everybody changes.

SPEAKER_02: 28:20

Oh, totally. And so it was fun that reconnect with that. And then I mean once the podcast started, like I remember I wrote down the list of people that I wanted to have. It's like my first list. I was like, Kevin Kirk.

SPEAKER_03: 28:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_02: 28:30

And then I'll never forget. I like walk into the store one day. I was like, Hey Kevin, like I we talked a couple years ago again. But he's like, Yeah, yeah, Joey's old friend Eric. I'm like, We have you on the podcast. And he's like, Yeah, of course. I love doing stuff like that. And it was fun to hear just like his I mean, the story of the heavy metal shop and how much he's done for everything. And like it's always I like every time I walk down the street and I see someone with a heavy metal shop shirt, sweatshirt, hat, whatever, I was like, you get it.

SPEAKER_00: 28:54

Yeah, totally. Well, and uh just such a nice guy. And it's crazy all of the stories like you mentioned that he's got. I mean, I was just checking out his Instagram the other day, and Alice Cooper, you know, played. And he was, of course, hanging out with Alice, you know, like they're like best friends.

SPEAKER_02: 29:08

Yeah. Like because in his story, like Alice Cooper is one of the first artists, he's like, Oh my gosh, like metal, like this is it. Yeah. And then little by little, Alice keeps coming through town, and next thing you know, they're like, like I remember I was trying to coordinate with someone from Live Nation last year when Alice Cooper was in town. I was like, Hey, I kind of want to surprise Kevin with tickets or do this. And these are bottom. They're hanging out all day. Like that's part of the agenda. I was like, okay, scratch that. Um, and so it's it's fun to see how much like and even just like all the artists that come through are like, yeah, let's go stop by the heavy metal travel, we'll do a signing, we'll give them tickets, like just always something.

SPEAKER_00: 29:40

Alice even did like a little video when Angie was really sick, like about Angie and like asking everybody to pray for her and stuff. It was really sweet. Like, yeah, it's pretty special. That I mean that family. That family's really special.

SPEAKER_02: 29:54

Totally. And they've gone through everything. If you're curious, go listen to the episode, people. Um good.

SPEAKER_00: 29:58

Which episode number is it? First season.

SPEAKER_02: 30:02

Well, yeah, for season one. It's in season one somewhere. Somewhere between episode 20 and 80. We'll link it in the episode. Yeah, we'll link in bio. Um so cool. So you're so involved in the music community. You get the job at the place you wanted to.

SPEAKER_00: 30:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 30:14

So uh when did Slug come into the picture?

SPEAKER_00: 30:16

Yeah. So and of course, you know, Slug magazine was carried there, we'd read it and stuff like that. And then um, then I left Mona Fide and started working for a record store across across the block, still on the ninth and ninth, called Salt City CDs. And uh and Mona Fide had moved down. They so they'd sold sold their ownership from the original person I worked with, and they'd moved locations, and so they moved further down, kind of where the Maven district is now. Got it. And um and we're that just changed the whole vibe of the store, and so it just wasn't as fun. So and so um so I ended up working at Salt City CDs and uh back on the ninth and ninth block and And um Gianni, who was the second owner of Slug magazine, he c he would come in as a regular customer. He was really good friends with the owners. He would advertise with them. And so I got to know him through there. And then he found out that I was a photographer. And so he hired me to shoot a cover of Slug.

SPEAKER_02: 31:09

And um full circle moment.

SPEAKER_00: 31:11

Yeah, it was so fun. It was it was really and so he got to know me through that and then he pitched me on becoming his managing editor. And because he found out, oh, she can write, she can, she knows a lot about music, uh, she can take photos. That's like everything that I need in a managed editor. And that was, you know, back when Slug was like Gianni and one other person. And then of course we've always had um a list of volunteers and contributors, you know, members of the community that have helped in that way. But Slug was very, very tiny, very small, um, you know, like a two-color just print rag, you know, with like a distribution of, I don't know, 3,000 or something like that.

SPEAKER_02: 31:45

Yeah. So you become number three.

SPEAKER_00: 31:47

Yeah. So I'm number three. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_02: 31:50

And so you do that. And then, I mean, shortly thereafter, they're like, hey, how about you just take it and run with it?

SPEAKER_00: 31:56

Yeah. So so I worked for Gianni for two years. And meanwhile, working for him, because I was working for him, I was still going to school, um, got my degree with an associate of applied science and an emphasis of photography. And my plan at that point was to, they had a program where you could test into the master's program at this university that I don't even think is around anymore, but it was called Brooks University. And this is like 99 or something, right? Um, and you could test in to their program and get a master's in photography in a year. And so that was my my route was like, okay, I'm gonna get the hell out of so like I'm either gonna go to the Brooks and get my degree there, or I'm gonna take the other track, which I'd also been simultaneously working. It's like which one of these pans out first? Um, I was working for universal music and video distribution as a college rep. And so I got to work like the first MM record, I gotta work like the first Gwen Stefani solo album. Like, I gotta work tons and tons of like major labeled big pop albums, which was super fun. Um, and some more underground stuff like Few Man 2 and some other cool stuff. But um, so I was on track for promotion with them to get moved out to San Francisco. And so I was like, okay, or I'm gonna do that, and then I'll just get to their corporate office, I'll be out of cell, like in the big city. And then, you know, I can also work I can work my photography career. And my my kind of goal was to become a label photographer, so which was a pretty cool high profile position back then when the music industry was different. And so they would have these label photographers and you would shoot all of the all their all their bands. Um, but I was gonna, but the the track that I was on promotion for was called an artist development representative. And so I would do all the marketing campaigns for the new signs, so sort of for like the brand new artists, I'd get to work with them and work on their marketing campaigns. So I got that promotion. They called me up, they're like, all right, you got the promotion. Um, so I so I went into Gianni at slug and I was like, hey, this is my 30-day notice. 30 days I'm moving to San Francisco and accept this job. And uh he was like, Don't do that. Like, just take over the magazine. You've already been running it. Like, I wanna, I wanna, you know, I'm not really inter interested in doing it any longer. Yeah, just buy me out. And I was like, uh, I don't think I want to do this. Like, I I really want to move out of state. And he's like, Well, well, just promise me you're gonna take the weekend and think about it. And I was like, Okay, Giada, think about over the weekend. And so I had already set up a like a lunch appointment with my dad the next day. He and I were super close. He was an entrepreneur, and to tell him that I was gonna take the job and move to San Francisco. So that was Saturday. We meet up for lunch, and um, I'd also received, I also told uh the CD store that I was leaving Salt City Cities, and they're like, no, like stay full time with us, like we'll give you health benefits, um, which to work at a record store and get health benefits. And they actually paid really, really well. But I was like, no, I know I've been doing music retail, I know I don't want to do that. So I um was talking to my dad at lunch, and I was like, hey, this is I have some really exciting news. I'm gonna move to San Francisco. You know, I've been working on you know a goal of getting out of out of Utah. Um, I'm gonna do it in about a month. You know, they said that I can move in 30 days, they're gonna help, you know, with costs and stuff like that. I'll just have to find a place. And then he was like, Well, let me tell you something. And I was like, Okay, what's up? And he was like, uh, I've got this family secret that I haven't known how to tell anyone. And but hearing that you're leaving, you need to know. And I and I was like, Okay. Um, and he said, I have terminal cancer. And I was like, Oh, okay, all right. And he had really been afraid to tell anybody because, you know, as I mentioned, my mom was bipolar schizophrenic and he was her guardian. And, you know, she needed a lot of extra support and care and wouldn't need to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_02: 35:31

He's probably got to be the backbone of that holds everything together.

SPEAKER_00: 35:34

Yeah, he was. And so he just didn't, he knew that you know, that was just gonna like shatter the family dynamic. And so he was like, So if you're leaving, you need to know that. And I was like, All right, that slideswise my decision. Well, I have this other opportunity to do this. So I'm gonna stay. I'm gonna take over Slug magazine. I'm gonna help transition you and I'm gonna take over and be mom's guardian. And so that's what I did. And so he was with us for about another two years and I helped transition him, which was beautiful, but also the hardest thing, you know. Cancer, I like to say, is um it's a blessing and you know, it's it's it's the greatest gift because you get time to say goodbye, but you it's also terrible, of course, because you see people wither, you know, right right in front of your eyes, but at least you get to say goodbye and have that time to like tell them everything that you want and tell them how much you love them and and show that love through helping them, you know. So I gotta do that, which was which was very special. And then I also became an entrepreneur and uh became a business owner, you know, didn't know what the hell I was doing.

SPEAKER_01: 36:35

Uh as we do when we start our own business.

SPEAKER_00: 36:39

Exactly, which you know is kind of part of the process. Like if you knew, if you knew everything, you probably would never do it, you know. So that was so that was great. And um, and I was like, okay, well, if I'm gonna if I'm I'm gonna make a five-year commitment, um, all of the other owners of Slug have done it for five years. I'm gonna make that same five-year commitment, and then I'm gonna get out of dots, right? So, so then after five years of, you know, building this business, I was working um two other jobs on the site. I still stayed a college rep. You know, my boss loved me so much that they were like, okay, you can still stay stay on for this. And they they even gave me some flexibility um because I needed the money because I couldn't afford for the loan payments for pay buying off the magazine and um to put to pay myself and pay other people. So so I worked that job. And then I also worked for a photographer um printing prints in his dark room at night. So I would uh I would essentially get up, do a couple hours of universal music and video distribution work because I had a home office, and then I would go to my slug office and go work there and crank till about eight o'clock at night. And then I would go over to um Brett Colvin's dark room and I would go in the back. And he he had this other photographer named Sean that was there. And I'd I would print for him for like five or six hours at night, and I'd leave all the prints for him. So when he came into the studio the next day, they were all ready for his clients. And then I'd just do that over again. And um, and so and I could only afford to pay one other person part-time for like 20 hours a week. So I was the delivery driver, I was the photographer, I was the editor, I was the secretary, you know, kind of like doing it all. Um, and it was a lot of fun. I learned so much. I worked so hard when all of my friends were out, you know, being 22, 23.

SPEAKER_02: 38:21

Um, I'm grinding all day every day.

SPEAKER_00: 38:24

Yeah, totally, totally. Um, but again, it was such a rewarding experience. I learned so much. And then of course, you know, that was um then also before that I would my father was kind of baked into that plan too. And um, but yeah, it was a lot of I learned I learned so much.

SPEAKER_02: 38:38

Yeah. I mean, as you do when you do a lot and learn a lot, it you look back and you don't understand all the growth. But I mean, what a crazy like turn of events from for sake of the conversation. And say you talk to your boss on Friday being like, All right, dreams are coming true. I'm going west, going to San Francisco, I'm gonna go live my dream, to like 24 hours later, being like, just kidding, I'm staying here and I'm taking care of my father.

SPEAKER_00: 39:01

Totally, totally. And well, and then, you know, after he'd passed and after it'd been that five-year term where it's like, okay, I made my goal, I lasted five years. I was finally being profitable. I could finally hire on some other team members. You know, I think I had um another editor, another part-time editor, and like a delivery person. She got me that sales person. Exactly, I could finally breathe. And so I was like, okay, I could sell right now and get out. But honestly, like I'm kind of having fun now. Um, now that I know what I'm doing a little bit more and I'm making some money. I mean, not a lot of money, but but making it work, right? And so so I was like, okay, I'm not gonna sell yet. And then a couple years later, I decided to start Kraft Lake City, which is our nonprofit. Um, so I run Slug magazine, which is a for-profit, and then they have what we call our sister company, which is Craft Lake City. Yes. And so that was started um just two years later. So I was seven years in and then decided to start another company. And so, and then I met and then of course, you know, you know, I was dating my partner too. And um, so we just have kind of decided to stay.

SPEAKER_02: 40:02

Dang. So talk to me about well, actually let's let's before we go to Craft Lake City, let's let's finish up with slugs. So I mean, from when you took the realm, I mean 2099, whenever that was. I mean, talk to me about all of like the milestones that you've helped grow it and that to from where it is today to where it is today.

SPEAKER_00: 40:19

Right. Well, you know, when I made that commitment to stay, Salt Lake City was a completely different place.

SPEAKER_02: 40:24

Oh my god, it's like pre-Olympics, pre, I mean, everything. Everything you look at in Salt Lake today that's relevant before that.

SPEAKER_00: 40:30

And there was nothing happening.

SPEAKER_02: 40:32

I mean, there was, you know, that's one thing people don't realize. Like I didn't even realize this until I was having a conversation here at Edison House with someone who he's got to be in his like probably like mid 50s, but was talking about like, oh, Salt Lake up and going, he's like, yo, the 80s and 90s kind of sucked. There was a lot of boarded up houses and not a lot of economic growth, and it just wasn't a great place. It's true. And like a lot of people, like there was a uh reel I posted about here's what happened here's what the Olympics brought in in 2002.

SPEAKER_03: 40:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 40:59

What are we what's gonna happen before 2034? And so many people are like, oh, that's when everything was ruined, corporate things came in, which like not wrong.

SPEAKER_03: 41:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 41:06

But also you would not have the salt like you do today without it. It would not be anything. It would be like a I mean, Reno would be a shinier star on the map that's right.

SPEAKER_00: 41:15

Although although, you know, 9-11 happened right before the Olympics too.

SPEAKER_02: 41:18

True, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 41:19

So that did change and that slowed a lot of probably what would have happened. Um, because you know, that that um population growth never came with the Olympics, you know, like as far as all the attendees. And um, I mean, of course, things were still sold out, events were sold out, there were still people that came, but it was not what everyone expected it to be. And I think that's what's kind of cool about this second time is it's kind of like, you know, all every all of the the state leaders, all of the city leaders, all of the people back then that had worked so hard for the Olympics in 2002 can now maybe see if they can revitalize that the second time. But but no, because 9-11 happened right before, you know, because the Olympics happened in what was it, January?

SPEAKER_02: 42:00

Yeah, it was being yeah, January, February 2002. And now I mean 9-11, 2001.

SPEAKER_00: 42:04

Yep. Well, and I and in Slug too, we had invested a bunch of money into like this glossy cover of the magazine for that month because we were gonna, you know, we're trying to sell and trying to bring in national companies to buy and and also how could we monetize the Olympics coming in too? And um, yeah, none of that a lot of that corporate money didn't really come in. Some did, but not as much as what everybody thought because everybody was so scared. I mean, there were, you know, um military uh individuals with M16s on on the blocks, on the corners of all the blocks and um at the airport, and you know, it felt like you were in Israel or something for a minute. It was kind of weird.

SPEAKER_02: 42:39

Yeah, I forgot about that side of things.

SPEAKER_00: 42:41

Yeah, so but but anyway, long story short. Yeah, uh, but yes, but yeah, so Salt Lake was very different. Um, you know, there weren't there's so many wonderful events happening all the time now. I mean, we were recording this at Edison House, you know. Oh my goodness, Alta Club was the only thing that was even close to, you know, some sort of um cool private club. But uh, and even then, when they just didn't even let women in until what the 80s? I mean, crazy. But uh, but yeah, so so that was so it was really my commit that I was like, okay, if I'm gonna stay in Salt Lake City, you know, I'm gonna make this place the place that I want to live. You know, I'm gonna do whatever I can to make it interesting, unique, diverse, cool, to uplift all the outsiders, to make people that that like myself that feel like they don't belong here belong. And so that's really become kind of like my life's work, my life's mission with Slug Magazine and also with Craft Lake City is to really just make Salt Lake City more interesting, more unique, and to highlight the weirdos, the artists, the creatives, um, you know, the individuals, LGBTQ, you know, um, people from other organizations, other uh cultural backgrounds that just feel like they don't belong here in Salt Lake, hey, you belong. And uh let's let's make some spaces where we can all get together and highlight each other and amplify each other and uh and yeah, just make it a better, better place to be.

SPEAKER_02: 44:03

Yeah. No, I agree. And that's like why I love Salt Lake, because like when you look at Utah as a whole, you're like, okay, like very conservative, very religious place. But then you have this dot of Salt Lake, which is tends to be the antithesis of it all, which is where I why I get so drawn to Salt Lake. I like spending so much time downtown and around it all because that's where that energy comes from. And that's why I like go to every concert that I can and go to all the events that I can, because I do like seeing that side of things. Like, give me give me the room with the people with where half of people have a sleeve, there's I mean, colored hair everywhere, and then and just like that's that's where I'd rather be than with, I mean, a bunch of blonde, fake hair, blue eyes, and uh that side of well, and you know, and that's cool too if that makes you happy, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 44:42

But and I think that that's kind of what's so cool about Salt Lake now is you know, salt slug stands for Salt Lake Underground. Um, but the underground with technology and with access has really blown up. And also what I mean by that is that you don't Salt Lakers love to rebel and we love to take it really seriously, but we don't have to as much now because society has really opened up and you know, you can walk down the street with blue hair and it's not a big deal. Versus 20 years ago was a big deal, you know. And I think that's really important. I think that's exciting that um underground culture can be kind of like popularized.

SPEAKER_02: 45:21

Yeah, it's like underground at one point became not underground.

SPEAKER_00: 45:26

Yes. I mean, uh and it's we talk about I talk about this sometimes with my team, you know, um, who were half my age, right? And uh and you know, about music, for instance, we just this like magazine just published a review of the new Taylor Swift album and some of our old school, because we've been around for 37 years, we have a nice mix of old schoolers like myself, you're even older than I. Um, and then of course, you know, the young, younger coming up generation that are really excited about what we do too, and it's a beautiful thing. But there was this clash, you know, on our post about, you know, the old schoolers being like, that's not underground, like, you know, Taylor Swift sucks and all this kind of stuff. And then of course, you know, the writer who wrote it, it was this incredible review, written so well, who's such a big Taylor Swift fan. And it's like, hey, there's a space now where pop music can be kind of cool and it's okay. Versus back then you really had to prove yourself by like, um, there had to be a hard line between um, you know, like the punks only like punk music, they can't like muddle, you know. And uh, if you look at someone, you could tell exactly what kind of music that they looked on based on their dress. You know, that's all out the window now. And I think it's beautiful. I think it's a beautiful thing. It just kind of makes us um I guess I think it is uh it it allows us to get along in new ways and to accept each other in new ways and not judge each other.

SPEAKER_02: 46:42

Yeah. And I think, and like I'll always be a fan of music because I think that's I mean, music is one of the few things where it's all of us together. And so there's no us versus them. There is no competitive nature behind it. And even just thinking about the last two or three weeks of shows I've been to. I mean, I was just last weekend at Red West watching let's see the country music the. Oh, with it. It was so fun. Like, I love putting on boots and a hat and just like ringing into it. And like, it wasn't until last year when I went the first year, where because I was like, I'm not like I would never sit say I'm like a huge country music fan, but that fest was the first time I was like, hey, we're just gonna three days just rapid fire all these things. So I was like, oh wait, I don't hate all country music. I just really don't like this, but I like this. This is fine, this is good, and so it's fun to have that. But then also like uh the Monday before that, I was at a sleep token concert, so like listening on metal, and then I was like at like a rave before that. So it's just like all of these like experiences I get to have, and I'm grateful that I do, and like thankfully, like the podcast has opened up a lot of those doors for me where we can do that. Where now, like to your point, it used to be like, oh no, no, I I am this and that's all I can be. Exactly. These lines, like these hard lines are now these gray areas that we can all explore.

SPEAKER_00: 47:50

I mean, the punks and the cowboys hated each other, they beat each other up, yeah, you know, and now you know it's like this club.

SPEAKER_02: 47:57

Like that's how that used to be is like all these hard lines and yeah, and different lunch tables, and now it's like, oh yeah, yeah, like we all kind of get along more so and that those gray areas are there, which is good because it like allows so much more space for people to interact with each other in different areas and understand people more. And then exactly. And social media and internet has helped a lot with that and created like this unifying voice. And then I mean, devil's advocate on that, like it also is as we've seen, divided people more.

SPEAKER_00: 48:21

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 48:21

Um, but then that's again why I like music because it can like help bring people there.

SPEAKER_00: 48:25

Yeah, and give you that freedom to explore who you are and what you like and don't like and it's so cool.

SPEAKER_02: 48:30

And I love that you've seen this whole journey through it all because I mean, you've seen, I mean, even just thinking about being broad trends from pre-9-11 to now, it's like, oh, you see, I mean, cell phones in their inception start to become popularized and email, and then all of a sudden smartphones and social media, internet and e-commerce.

SPEAKER_00: 48:48

So when I first got hired at Slug, I got a pager. Isn't that funny? It's so funny. Yeah. Yeah, I got a pager. And so Gianni would page be when you like needed to ask me questions and stuff. It was so weird.

SPEAKER_02: 48:59

Go to a payphone, call and collect, what's up?

SPEAKER_00: 49:02

Totally, totally so funny. So, yeah, I mean that really is true.

SPEAKER_02: 49:05

So, how many just for like sake of showing how much it's changed since you started, I mean, alone with a person who could barely pay part-time? I mean, what does the team look like now?

SPEAKER_00: 49:13

And oh yeah, our team's wonderful now. So we've got 25 delivery drivers that work part-time for us. So they make sure the mag gets all over the state. Uh, we've got 10 full-time employees. Um, and then we've got over a hundred volunteers. So, and our full-time employees are you know, editors, they're uh designers, they are sales uh reps. Um, and then of course we have editorial interns too. So we've got around two to three interns that are part-time in the office. So we've we've got a small army on this like side. It's wonderful. It's so fun.

SPEAKER_02: 49:46

So fun to see because like that's one thing I love about being like a quote entrepreneur and like starting my own thing, which is fun to see this grow. But I mean, to the scale that you have where you're like, all right, I gotta have three jobs so I can barely pay off this debt obligation plus this part-time guide being like we now have an army. And they all I mean, even like the thought of just having volunteers, like it baffles me. Like it's my life. I really don't have much more else to give compared to what I give to everything right now. Like all my like I'm kid tapped out. I wish I could do more, can't. Love to, but can't and like us. I always applaud people. It's like, oh, you have time to volunteer and you're doing it. Good. Like thank you for caring about something and and wanting to give back.

SPEAKER_00: 50:25

Yeah, and we have all different types of volunteers. You know, we've people that have been volunteering for almost, I mean, we have a couple people that have been on the team as long as I have in a volunteer capacity, you know. Um, and that can look like anything from them writing one or two stories a year to being active writing something every month or copy editing every month, you know. But and then of course we have people that um are just starting and you know, maybe it's their inspiration to become a music journalist and they have no idea how to write, you know, and that's really we shepherd them through that process. And we've had a lot of people that come through our system that have made great careers out of their skills that they've learned from being a volunteer. And so it's it's a wonderful program where we get a shepherd uh up and coming, but also um work with people that still have those skills, but they just want to do it for fun because they love it, but they've got like you know, a family and a and a day job that they need, you know, to support all of that. And this is like their passion, this is what they get to do when the kids go to bed, you know.

SPEAKER_02: 51:18

Love that. So hard pivot craft lake city, craft Lake City. So it it like I love this story of like this being a dynamic in it because it seems so counterintuitive to everything else. So because I just think of like when I think of crafting the word in itself, I think of my grandmother in her crafting room in the basement, either making quilts or putting together scrapbooks. Yes, and that seems very antithetical to what I think of slug. So I mean what I mean, I imagine there was uh some sort of DIY aspect that you were doing in your free time, and then all of a sudden you're like, let's just bring all these people together.

SPEAKER_00: 51:54

Yeah, well, you know, crafting um it's a nod to the you know, craft Lake City, then the name. It's really a nod to our culture here. It's a nod to the fabric of um, you know, the LDS community that I grew up in that has a very craft, you know, I mean history. You know, there used to be this really cool store called Mormon Handicraft that was downtown. Um, and uh there was also a really cool LDS-owned store called Zim's that had like all the crafting supplies and it's really baked into that society. And but I love that because it's it's also turning everybody into making functional devices, into learning how to be creative, into coming together and learning a practice, into tapping into meditation. And so there's that whole nod to like my own personal upbringing that I think is beautiful. But simultaneously, you know, there's a huge movement um nationally about how craft is cool. And it's kind of like a retro movement, too, because in the 70s, crafting was at its heyday. Um, you know, macrome, plant holders, um, you know, um crocheting, um, all different types of things. And then it went through this, you know, hey, only grandma does that, right? And so we decided to bring it back. And one of the reasons why we brought it back with this cool factor is not only because it's got this nice nod to our own cultural heritage, but because for me as an artist, you know, one of the things that I haven't mentioned is that you know, I do a lot of documentary photography. And I do consider myself an artist. And I used to exhibit my work, my silver gelatin prints in galleries when I could or art shows. And back in Utah in the early aughts, mid-aughts, it was really difficult to get any sort of respect and to get your work in galleries or to find places where you could sell your work. I mean, now there's wonderful markets every single day, you know? Get on a fish or there's a market on the weekend, you know, so cool. Um, but back then there was no place for you to get to show your work. And people like myself that were creatives felt like we had to leave. Like we had to leave Salt Lake City to get our work shown. Um, even with technology coming up, you still felt like there just wasn't a community that would appreciate you. Well, with all of my work with Slug magazine, working with local artisans to design covers, you know, for um for the magazine, or you know, we produced a local band compilation series for a number of years. So working with visual artists for that, or even just me being a visual artist and very highly involved in the gallery stroll scene, or even in that scene. And um, you know, I knew what I still believe are some of the most creative, beautiful, incredible talented artists. And they a lot of them were leaving. And so I thought, okay, we need to create a community for artists where artists can not only be recognized by the community they live in, but meet each other and get to know each other and can start to form this fabric where they will stay here in Salt Lake City. So that's why I started Craft Lake City, which started as a slug magazine event in 2009. And so we did the first Craft Lake City at the Galovan Center. And it was a free event and it was for crafters, makers, artisans. But the other thing about it, it's with that term craft, it's about like blurring the line between an artisan and an artist. Because artisans are craft makers, right? Um, there's a whole process, but really artists are the same thing. They just use different tools, and there's just kind of like a status quo that is associated with exhibiting in a gallery. And that what is um and you know, some artists like myself just never felt comfortable inside of those galleries. And so with Craft Lake City, it's about taking art back to the people. It's about a providing it for an affordable rate so that anybody can afford art in their home, because I do believe anybody should be able to have a handmade piece on their wall or that they use every day. Maybe it's some pottery or something like that, right? Um, and so it's providing the access to those artisans, meanwhile, giving a place for artisans to sell their work and get recognized by the people.

SPEAKER_02: 55:56

Yeah. I mean, I'm a big fan of everything, even like and all the ethos behind it. Because it's been interesting, like some of the rabbit holes I've gone down through the podcast is the the artistic and creative community. And even um, oh my gosh, what's her last name? Nanette, who runs Salt Lake um art market, who just opened Five Lemons, like in talking to her about that, and like the reason of her starting it was again, like similarly, like there isn't a place to do this. I want to create it. If starting in her house and now, I mean, she has her own, I mean, uh, gallery space that's open year round. And like I'm someone who I mean, the five years ago, if you're asking me like, oh, like, are you a creative person? Like, oh, I don't know how to paint, I don't know how to draw, I don't do this. But now, like within the last three years, like I I started painting three years ago because it was like, again, I had this like creative itch, but didn't want to do it. And a friend gave me a gift for this like 10-week learn to paint class, but and like really open up the door because like all the art classes I took in middle school and high school, it's like uh I don't want to try, I'm a snot known as teenager, I'm out of here. But then it wasn't until I'm like, hey, like sit with it, try it, like really just get whatever's inside out. Because again, like the it's the cheesy quote that's been circulating recently, but like the opposite of depression is expression. And so the more that you have a way to express this, get these feelings that you have out onto something, or like it doesn't have to be an artistic way, but that it helps so much. And I remember there was this painting I have, it's on my wall now, but it was this apple, it was like the first real still life thing we did outside of like shapes and like blocks. And I remember I'm painting this apple, and I'm just like, yeah, myself, this is so fucking stupid. I hate this. What goddamn it, like I suck at this, whatever. And this woman comes behind me, she like just walking on the class, she's like, Oh, that's really good. And I'm like, Oh, thank you. But I'm like, you don't know shit, like go away. Like, I hate this. I snap a picture of it, I think I put on my story, go about the rest of my night, and like all of a sudden I like pull it back up and I'm like, wait a minute, this actually is kind of good. And it was this, it's this weird kind of confidence that I found of like, I mean, like I got something from the podcast, but this as well of like, oh, I can learn new things, do new things, and and find new things in myself. Because like one thought I have every now and then is like just using something like like music, like the people who are the best like guitarists of all time are only the people who have played guitar. And so who hasn't played guitar that could be or that could be amazing if they just tried, but again, like we have these weird perceptions of our own ego and personality that says we can't do certain exactly whatever that like personal identity is. You know, I was talking to a friend where he's like, Oh, I've tried like painting, I've tried this, and it's just not doesn't really I don't like it at all. Like, I'm not a creative person. Like, no, no, no, no. You haven't found the right creative thing. And there's so many million things of different ways you can do it. And I've tried to always try new things for the sake of trying new things, and like the the cost of being adventurous is some things don't work out. The cost of going out and trying a new restaurant every week is it's not gonna be a perfect thing. Something's gonna suck, some you're not even gonna finish, but you're gonna find some gems too. And so I've always tried to be curious instead of judgmental and and try out the things that I didn't know I have. Like, even me and my girlfriend Autumn, who you just met, we were at Target, and there was some of those like, what are they, punch, sewing oh punch needle punch needle things and all that? Should we get it while we watch a movie? And the next thing you are saying, I'm like, this is actually kind of fun. I get this. And so, like, again, like we have like these beliefs in ourselves that we can't do it. And I love challenging whenever my brain tells me, like, oh, that's not you, I'm like, oh contraire, we are about to find it could be you. Yeah. And so I love that you've created this space for people to, I mean, a give them a platform, space, place, um, everything in between if they do want to have an accessible way to sell, purchase, create a market for it. But then also, I mean, again, like the more people that see that and experience that inspires them on their own creative journey as well.

SPEAKER_00: 59:36

Yes. And you know, and that's why we started our monthly workshop series back in 2012. So that was next to the festival that was um which which Craft Lake City was bootstrapped. We were seven years we ran that org with a hundred percent volunteers, including myself. Yeah. So a lot of love there. But then, you know, in 2012 we started doing workshops, and it was because of that same reason was to teach everyone that they are a maker and a creator themselves. And it's just the reps, like you were saying. You just gotta practice. You just gotta, and you can be that master guitar player. I'm learning how to play guitar right now.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:09

I have a guitar in my living room that I told myself I was going to learn, and I've probably touched it on the five.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:13

Oh my gosh, this is my fourth time committing to guitar. I quit three other times. And in fact, I'm a serial quitter with mus with music. I've always wanted to play music, and I'm finally ready making the commitment now. In fact, I just I started a challenge for myself where I have to um I have to play every single day for a hundred days for at least 15 minutes. Otherwise, I have to quit my band. Because I because I started a band too.

SPEAKER_01: 1:00:39

You're like, I haven't started a band yet, but I'm gonna quit it if I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:42

Actually, so so as part of my and my guitar lessons, um my guitar mentor is like, you need to start a band. That's part of your homework. And so he actually It's an accountability system. It is, it's accountability. Yeah. And I'd love my band, but I I have to quit if I don't keep practicing.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:57

Because like I I know music is like because I I know the podcast has been part of my journey, but I know that there's something after this and I don't know what it is. But part of it's music to me. And I don't know what that looks like. And so like part of me is like, oh, I could go play the guitar and do this. Or like, oh, I could go buy like like DJ mixing equipment and go do that. I could like, and so I get torn in so many different ways, but at the end of the day, I'm like, just start with something and you'll figure it out as you go. Yes. And so I applaud that you're doing it and have an accountability system that you may or may not quit, depending on we'll find out in a hundred days.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:27

Um, I'm gonna do it because I'm not quitting. Well, I told my band today, and they're like, they're like, You're not gonna quit, we're gonna kick you out. It's like, yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:01:34

You're like, thanks for supporting me. Totally, totally. Oh man. So yeah, I mean, that was this would be year like 16 of the um DIY. I mean, I'm solid.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:45

Uh actually, yeah, so we just did 17. Okay. Because there was a COVID year that was virtual, which was awesome. And then um next year is gonna be 18. Wow. Yeah, so our first 10 was at the Galovan Center, and then we moved to the Utah State Fair Park, and then year two at the Utah State Fair Park was virtual, which was amazing. Actually, it was so cool. We um there was this really cool program uh they actually took it down, but it was called Mozilla Hubs, where you could create your own um worlds inside of this program. It was and you could you could be an avatar and create these, you know. We had we what we did with it is we created a virtual festival. So we trained everybody in like a month on how to create their own artisan booth inside this virtual world that we built that was um a footprint of the DIY festival. And then we hosted the festival in the platform Mozilla Mozilla Hubs is what it was called. And everyone would go in there, create their own avatar, and then you could meet up and talk to each other and then walk around like a video game style. It was so cool. In fact, it was so cool that we actually on opening day of the festival during COVID, we broke the servers for Mozilla. It was crazy because like I had been trying to meet with them. Um, and so we set up a meeting at the festival in avatar form. Yes. And so we were meeting in this one room, and I just like went up and we just said hi to each other, and then boom, we crashed the servers. It was crazy. So then we took it to email and they like had to move all of the storage over on their servers for us. And and um it they were really impressed. Like we were the biggest thing that they'd ever seen built in there. But anyway, long story short, they they uh I think they killed that program like three or four years ago, so you can't see it anymore. But it was the coolest thing, virtual DIY festival. We'd actually sometimes just meet in there for teams, like for meetings to be like, hey, let's log in. Yeah, let's log in, let's go meet there.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:27

Better than the conference room.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:30

But yes, but yeah, so nowhere in year 18. Um, but yeah, the DIY festival, it's at it's at the Utah State Fair Park. We've got um a STEM component. In fact, G Fiber has been the title sponsor of our STEM building for 13 years. Wow, which is amazing. We have some incredible sponsors. Harman's um, they've been our title sponsor for 11 years. Uh, it's really been wonderful to just have some of these really great communic companies come out and just support us.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:56

Especially like iconic things in the community that good brands see something and like, hey, we want to be part of this because we know that it's an like and obviously like there's I mean, brand recognition for them, but to see something that they of all the things that they can choose to support, it's like this is the thing that we want to put our name on.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:11

Totally. And we do tons of other stuff besides DIY Festival Monthly Workshops. We do a holiday market that we're working on right now. It's our seventh year up in Ogden, Utah, doing that. Um, we do a partnership with Mill Creek called the Makers Mart, which is a cash and carry market that we do once a year. This is our third year doing that with them. We do a partnership with Midvale City called Letter West, and this is a conference for people who love hand lettering. It's very niche. Super cool. But if you're into sign painting, if you're into calligraphy, if you're into modern lettering, if you're into tattoo lettering, um, graffiti, like this is your conference. It's really cool. We bring in people from all over the world. Last year we brought in Chaz Bajorquez, who is a legendary Chicano graffiti here. He's in his late 70s, and he had more energy than like the 22-year-olds that were on the conference. So it was so fun. It was a pleasure to have him come out. Um, we've had Seb Lester from the UK, who is a master calligrapher who's done a lot of work for NASA and Apple. Uh this year we're bringing out um Jessica. Oh my gosh, what's her last name? Hadesh Hesh? Jessica Hesh, I think is her last name. She's she's like the founder of the modern hair lettering movement. Um anyway, it's if you're into that, definitely check that out. That's coming up in April.

SPEAKER_02: 1:05:23

But this is all the 10 years super niche things that I have no idea about, and she's being like, no idea about this. Like I was at uh when I was at Red West. So when uh I was with my girlfriend, her little brother was in town, and one of her friends came with us. And when we get there, she's like, I want to go line dancing when we're here. I go to the western every now and then. I'm like, eh, like, why not? But I didn't understand the world of line dancing that it was. Like, because I walk up and I'm like, it's assume like I was like, oh right, boot, scoot, and boogie, like, you know, like same old shit that everybody does. But then I'm like, oh wait, like these are all pre-choreographed things that people have memorized and they play a song, and like some people come, some people will go. And I'm like, I had no idea this world existed.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:59

Like it's a whole scene. Yeah, I'm obsessed with I've never gone, but I follow some people on TikTok that I love to watch their feeds. They're so good, it's really cool.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:08

So I love, I mean, and the podcast has been a great medium to do that, but I just like find these little things. I'm like, and ADHD hyperfixation deep dive, and let's see how far down we can get.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:18

So, yes, I would love to go to hand lettering fast. Like one of my friends, he lives down in St. George, but he does um typography for a career. Like people reach out to him, he's like, Hey, this is our brand. So he's like, Let me go create a type font for you, be right back. Yes. And so it's like those sort of things. I'm like, I have no idea, but I'd love to learn.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:35

It's type adjacent for sure. Interesting.

SPEAKER_02: 1:06:38

Cool.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:39

I want to offer your listeners an opportunity if they're interested.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:44

Go on.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:46

Um, yeah. So um if they're interested in free tickets for the holiday market, um, just follow me at Instagram. I'm at the real angela, and just DM me. Um DM me uh small lake city and uh yeah, we'll get we'll get you some some tickets.

SPEAKER_02: 1:07:04

Yes, holiday market. I will be there because I need to go exp I need to see the world that you've created or one of the the one of the worlds. One of the one of your Mozilla worlds that you created. Yes. Like which is wild. Like there's few people like anybody can be more or less like a one-hit wonder. Like there's countless examples across every aspect of the world. But there's this special people who can continue to deliver and deliver and deliver. And like you are one of these people who's been like, okay, here's this like magazine slash like pseudo-communities that's existed forever. I'm gonna take it and then boom. And then you're like, hey, like there's kind of this like appetite for these craft and creative people. I'm gonna do this, then boom. And so I love that you're this person that's been able to just take uh, I mean, MacGyver the way out of things that you've seen and been able to create a space and a place where people didn't have wanted it. Because it's a hard thing to do. Like, even I was at this event on Tuesday Tuesday. It was down at Pa and I was down at the green room for this uh event platform, and it was like mostly people who just throw a lot of events, and like there's people who've done it for decades, there's people who've done it for weeks, and like it was just kind of talking. People's like, because like for an event, you have like most things, but for sake of the argument on this one, let's say events, like you have to convince someone to do something new and change their behavior to go somewhere they haven't been before, which is a lot. It is a lot, and so we're kind of talking about like, oh, like people want to be places, but it's hard for them to go places, social anxiety, post-COVID, blah, blah, blah. And so the thought of like that alone in its own world is one thing, and to do that one time, but then to create all of these different avenues of like not just Craft Lake City, but then all these monthly workshops and like all these other niche and nuanced things you've created is is pretty spectacular. Like, kudos to you and everything that you've done. Like, that's a lot to do as someone who's like trying and have a budding community that I'm trying to put together. Like, it's I scratch my head at it a lot sometimes and often in frustration. So keep doing it. Thank you. I know there's something else you're gonna do eventually, and it's gonna grow like a get some plans.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:05

You just wait.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:07

Love it, Angela. Um, well, before we wrap up, want to ask you the two questions I always ask everybody on every episode. Number one, if you could have someone on the Small Lake City podcast and hear more about what they've been up to and hear their story, who would you want to hear from?

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:20

Oh yeah. Oh gosh, there's so many wonderful people I would love to hear from. Um, you know, oh my goodness, who should I who should I nominate?

SPEAKER_01: 1:09:30

Tyro, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:32

Like, who should I nominate out of everyone? And I I I knew I was gonna be asked this, so I should have come well very I should have come more prepared. Um, but it's such a great question. I would say, let's see, who has not been on that needs to be on? Um there's like a lot of people swirling through my mind right now, but I want to choose someone a little unique that maybe you don't know.

SPEAKER_02: 1:09:57

Those are my favorite. Because like I the things I know about, I know about, I can ask them, I can work on that. But I love the things I'm like, yeah, yeah, I have no idea. Would love to go down another rabbit hole.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:10

You know, yeah maybe since we're talking about music and um maybe my guitar mentor is someone you should have on. Hmm.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:18

Tell me more.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:18

David Payne.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:19

David Payne. Why does that name sound fake?

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:21

Because he's a local legend.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:22

Of course.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:23

Yeah, and he's got a lot of real he could tell you a lot about this Lake City music scene. Cool. He's still very active in it and has been very active in it for the past 30 years. Totally. And even the provo music scene. So I think he would be wonderful. Oh, provo music scene though, too. Um, Corey Fox, you need to have Corey on. Oh, Corey's behind Valore. In fact, you definitely need to have him on because he's celebrating Valor's anniversary. How many years is it? In January. It might be 15 or is it 20? I don't know. But but he's behind, I mean, all of the big bands that have come out of Provo to Corey.

SPEAKER_02: 1:10:55

Well, it's like even I just saw the announcement that for Redfest at the U, it's Neon Trees and their one that came out of there. Like, cause yeah, the amount of music that's come from Utah that like I mean, there's the people that know about of like the connections of Imagine Dragons and Neon Trees and the Used. And but then there's also so many more that people like don't realize all of the like even when I went and saw who did I go see recently. This is getting another deep dive into my music breath. Oh yeah, uh Empire of the Sun. Oh, yeah. When I was there, like some of my friends DMs me last because I was like, wanted to go, but I was tired. And one of my friends texted, actually, two friends separately text me who were friends with each other, and they didn't realize they both text me, but they did. Like, we should go. I'm like, I really don't want to pay for it. But like, let me see if I can text someone and like yada yada yada is like able to get a ticket, and then I get there, and they're like, Oh, we got tickets too. And they're like, Well, how'd you do? I'm like, I just know like uh some people at Granary worked out. They're like, oh, well, the someone we went to high school with who was a dancer in high school musical, her brother is the bassist for Empire of the Sun, and she used to be one of the background dancers for them. So that's how we got tickets. I love it. And even when, oh my god, oh yeah, I was at the airport before Red West because I was coming back from Vegas for a work trip, and I see these guys like grabbing like a guitar out of like the the oversight storage and other stuff. I'm like, you guys are performing this weekend, aren't you? Like, yeah, we're just in from Nashville. So cool. And they're like, Yeah, our guitarist used like is from here. I'm like, of course he is. So it's like it's like these little connections that it's not like this huge face, but there's so many little threads between it all.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:24

So we have such a great music community here. It's really, really wonderful. And you definitely get Corey on.

SPEAKER_02: 1:12:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:30

Yeah, I can I'll give you an introduction. Yeah, no, I would love to. Well, and let's uh let's give a shout-out to a woman too. I'm sorry I'm answering this with three different people, but the first person that actually came to my mind when you mentioned this was Felicia Baca. She's head of the Salt Lake City Arts Council. She's incredible, and um, she's a she's a wonderful visual artist herself, although she probably doesn't practice as much like I don't. She's a photographer as well. And then she's an incredible musician too. She plays bass. Of course. Um, but she's also just a powerhouse. I mean, you know, the executive director of the Salt Lake City Arts Council. So uh works with the mayor and um a lot of other uh wonderful people here and is really supportive of the arts. And she's got some exciting things that she could talk about. So you should have her on too.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:10

Deal. No, great recommendations. And then lastly, if people want to find out more about Craft Lake City, all the other things attached with that slug or you, what's the best place to find more information?

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:22

Yeah, follow me on my personal Instagram at the realangela.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:26

Which is amazing that you have that handle. That's a good one.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:29

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:30

I feel like we've we're past the time. Like it happened with emails a while ago where you can't really like have your name anymore, like asked be something. And like with Instagram and other things, it's like, yeah, like you can't get your name, or like especially like a more generic name, like Angela Brown isn't the most unique name. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:44

No, no, tell me about it. That's why I use I like to use my middle initial, Angela H. Brown. Because it's every time I'm at the dentist's office, it's true. There's like, okay, there's like 40 of you. Which one are you?

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:54

Yes. Um, Angela's been amazing.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:57

Oh, my pleasure. And I had so much fun chatting with you. I feel like I could be here another three hours.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:01

That's my problem, is like you like it's a joke. Like when I especially with like my golf friends, because like I used to kind of resent it, but now I kind of appreciate it that they like they kind of hold this mentality of me from like high school. And because like all of a sudden I'll be like about to tee off or something, and then they'll be like, someone will talk about something like, well, the funny thing is, like, and I'll start talking like Eric, shut up and just hit the ball, or else we're gonna be here all day.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:23

I do the same thing.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:24

Yeah, like my therapist coins it like when I was first talking to her, like therapist or something. Anyway, that's a whole nother rabbit hole. Um, but she's like, Well, what's like where do you find the most joy in life? Like, where do you enjoy this? I'm like, Oh, like you give me three or four, maybe five friends around a table, bottle of wine in the middle, and she's like, Oh, tabling. And I was like, Tabling. Like, come again. She's like, Yeah, that's what I call it's like tabling of just like sitting around a table, people chatting, like that is my happy place.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:51

And well, and that is exactly why you're such a good host.

SPEAKER_02: 1:14:55

I it's an interviewer. I enjoy it. It's it's fun. Like, I like even this week has been a long week. And before this, I was like, I I don't know if I'm gonna do this. And then all of a sudden, like as soon as I You're like, should I cancel? I don't know, should I postpone uh I've only had to cancel day up once, and that was because I was like, anyway, just not in a great mentality.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:12

Well, I was so glad that you made time today.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:14

Yes, no, so much. Likewise, I mean you have a billion I have things going on, but you have a billion things going on. It's not a contest. Yes, and no nor should it ever be. That's my biggest. So I would probably win. No, just keep it. No, you would win. 100% you would win. And because like you have, I mean, you have a cat, I don't have a cat, you have a child, I don't have a child, you have a magazine, I don't have a magazine.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:30

And we we could say yet at the end of all of those if we wanted to.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:33

Don't tell Autumn. She's trying to get me to get a cat.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:35

I I think you should. I'm I'm on team autumn for the cat, definitely.

SPEAKER_02: 1:15:40

All right, Angela. Before we're here and tell the the kick us out of here, thank you so much. Keep doing what you're doing, and so excited to see what you have cooked up your sleeve next.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:48

Thanks.