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Small Lake City
Small Talk, Big City
Join host Erik Nilsson as he interviews the entrepreneurs, creators, and builders making Salt Lake City the best place it can be. Covering topics such as business, politics, art, food, and more you will get to know the amazing people behind the scenes investing their time and money to improve the place we call home.
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Small Lake City
S1, E86: FlowHaus - Mitch Matthews
From facing the brutal cuts of NFL teams to hiking a Polish mountain in freezing temperatures wearing nothing but shorts and gloves, Mitch Matthews brings us on a remarkable journey of personal transformation that led to creating FlowHaus—a sanctuary designed to elevate human connection through hot and cold therapy.
Matthews opens up about the psychological challenges of transitioning from football stardom to the uncertainty of post-athletic life. "I'm done playing football, I just started this business, my mom had just passed away," he shares, revealing the perfect storm that pushed him toward a profound reset. When a fateful meeting with Wim Hof in Poland introduced him to breathwork and cold exposure, Matthews discovered something more valuable than physical resilience—he found a pathway to peak mental states and authentic human connection.
Flow House emerged from Matthews' realization that the transformative experiences he had in Poland could be accessible to everyone. But this isn't just another wellness trend or sauna facility. "FlowHaus is first a message and a feeling," Matthews explains. "Second, it's a community... and then, thirdly, it's a space." In a world where digital connection has replaced genuine human interaction, Matthews has created an environment where strangers become confidants through shared experiences in breath, heat, and cold.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when Matthews shares his philosophy on success: "If you want a good career and you want a good business, listen to everyone who's gone before you and done it. But if you want a successful life, sometimes it means listening to nobody." This counterintuitive wisdom, along with his concept of the "celery test"—filtering all advice through your own intuition—offers a refreshing perspective on authentic living in an advice-saturated world.
Whether you're navigating a major life transition, seeking deeper community connections, or simply curious about the science behind cold plunges and sauna therapy, this conversation will leave you contemplating how intentional discomfort might be the gateway to your next level of growth. As Matthews puts it: "The feeling is like being in the zone where you just can't miss that shot—peak confidence, peak flow."
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If you want a good career and you want a good business, listen to everyone who's gone before you've done it. But if you want a successful life, sometimes it means listening to nobody Like. I was in the NFL for two years as well. I'm done playing football. I just started this business. My mom had just passed away. I always promised myself that when football was done whenever it was that I was going to be really freaking good at the next thing I did. All these new experiences that allowed us to feel this sort of superhuman depth. It's not a mirage Like a lot of followers isn't necessarily a community. A lot of people knowing you isn't a community. So community truly takes time. I want to see someone I love all the way on the other side of the sauna like pouring up, but that's what I want.
Speaker 2:What is up everybody and welcome back to another episode of the Small Lake City Podcast. I'm your host, eric Nielsen, and this week's guest is someone who moved to Utah from the Pacific Northwest to play football at BYU, before playing in the NFL for four different NFL teams, starting a successful business, but somehow felt like there was more to his life that he needed to be doing Now. This journey led him to Poland and eventually to the top of a mountain after a four hour hike in nothing but boots, gloves and shorts. Now this person's name is Mitch Matthews. Now, having a very successful athletic career, he is now opening up his own studio down in Pleasant Grove that provides cold and hot therapy via sauna and cold baths, breathing classes, all in an effort to bring people together, create a community, to help raise everybody's vibrations and bring people together.
Speaker 2:Now we talk about everything from his football career to loss in his life, to his new endeavor and what's motivating him to do it, and a lot of his ethos in doing so. So it's a great episode and also huge shout out to Johnny Johnson for letting us record in his studio at lift threads. So if any of you need new athletic gear and are looking for a new option outside of the normal stuff. Definitely check out his website, lift threadscom great local company, great product, and so definitely go check that out. But otherwise this is an episode you're going to love. So check this out with Mitch Matthews and his story of creating Flow House Were you born here in Utah, I grew up in Oregon, portland, oregon.
Speaker 1:Oh, you're a Portland guy.
Speaker 2:I'm headed there this weekend? Are you really? Yeah, love, florida From Beaverton. Your point, I'm headed there this weekend. Are you really? Yeah, love, for I've been in beaverton. No, yeah, I will be in beaverton, I have, uh. So I used to live in seattle. I went there after school for like my first couple jobs out of college did you talk about this? Maybe? Uh, keep going. Yeah, so it was up there. And then I have a bunch of family in oregon where, um, oh my gosh why can I never remember the names, but it's one is lives right off, right off the Columbia River, kind of just east of Smalltown. Yeah, smalltown, gresham, gresham, thank you, wow, that was actually really impressive. So she lives in Gresham. Her husband is a pharmacist, huge fisherman. He works two hours the best fishery in the world, in my opinion, oh, exactly. So he goes there usually every day before work in the summer. And then I have a cousin that lives out in willamette valley and then my aunt lives in wilsonville.
Speaker 1:Um, so, yeah, they're like gresham, I'd say is is still a suburb. It is a suburb for sure, but it's like your working class, like hard-working, typically people, yeah, blue collar, uh. And then wilsonville used to be like oh, wilsonville, that's like way out there, hardworking, typically people, yeah, blue collar. And then Wilsonville used to be like oh, wilsonville, that's like way out there. Now it's like so populated that like Wilsonville touches the rest of the population, yeah, like the suburbs. And so Wilsonville is like where a lot of my friends live now, where it used to be like a small town, yeah, but I had a lot of teammates and like travel ball and stuff from Gresham, it's a great place.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sick Interesting. I didn't know you were from Portland. Yeah, I love Portland.
Speaker 1:I was born in Vegas, okay, lived there for nine months as a baby, and then I was in Portland for 18 years before I went to college at BYU. Oh, okay, oregon's home, that makes sense. I was.
Speaker 2:I assume I mean playing sports, growing up in Beaverton, portland area, and then Got a scholarship to BYU Cool, wait, so I know you played football at BYU. What years were you there? 12 to 15. Okay, so that's like right when? Because when I was in college at the U, it was 12 to yeah, Love it. Let's say yes what? It started January 2012, and then graduated December 2016? 16 or 15? 16. 16.
Speaker 1:Because I had 12. No, because if 12, you were there 13, 14, 15, unless you went a fifth year. I did like.
Speaker 2:I did five. Oh, okay, because I went from. I started off as an architecture major because that's what I thought I was going to do. Turned out not enough jobs, not enough money, not my kind of creativity to civil engineering, pre-pharmacy business. I pre-pharmacy business, I have no idea what the hell I'm going to do.
Speaker 1:Finance, and then finally that that was the one that stuck. How are we bro? I'm done, I'm done, I'm done. I just knew I'm watching the kids for two hours after this.
Speaker 2:I'm like I gotta get ready for that, but tell me about that experience at BYU playing football, cause like I know I mean cause like was that right before Satake got there Right before?
Speaker 1:Right before. So I had the last four years of Mendenhall Cool Dude. I had an amazing experience. I had an amazing experience Growing up in Beaverton. I was a Duck fan. Just because everyone loved the Ducks, all the Nike, you know the swag? Oh yeah, everyone loved them. But my brother got a scholarship to BYU and from that point on, when I was a freshman he was a junior we were just BYU people instantly, which was cool, and you, coming into it, like you know I was, my brother was extremely highly recruited. I wasn't as much. What position did he play? Tight end receiver, and what were you Receiver?
Speaker 2:He's bigger than me, though, so he played some tight ends, he's bigger than you, thicker, okay, I was going to say Because you're like, not a small person.
Speaker 1:No, no, no, I'm on the very tall end Of Of Football players Receivers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the tallest, I would hate to defend you. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So we came to BYU and you have these extremely high hopes that when you're getting recruited, like you think, you're going to go straight to BYU and just be the man. Yeah, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:I mean that's being a naive recruit is like but everybody was the man and think they're going to be the man, and then they walk up.
Speaker 1:Exactly I got to BYU and they were like who the fuck is this guy? You know what I mean? Like I'm like, wait, I recruited kid like me and my brother were a big deal. They didn't even like I read shirt as a freshman, didn't even have a chance to play, which, what they were right about. Um, but like I think I think people, when they ask that question, like what was it like, it's because they're thinking from the optics of like it was probably amazing, it was probably perfect.
Speaker 1:They're on stage, yeah, but you go through some shit, dude. Yeah, you go through some. I was, you know, I was the perfect, literally on stage. But you go through some shit, dude, you go through some. I was, you know, I was the featured player on the team for two years, so I had an amazing experience. But that's one player like a lot of other guys are. Like like a lot of my friends, like they didn't have a good experience. They're riddled with injuries and they didn't get along with coaches and had a poor experience, but like we're there at the same time.
Speaker 1:I was you know what I'm saying. So, like I'm, I'm I say that because I'm extremely freaking grateful for my experience at BYU, because I got the ball.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was the guy, you know I was the guy that other teams planned for, like I I was, you know, one of the main year I was like this goes to transferring, yeah, me and a bunch of the players, because like it's not perfect in any way, but my junior and senior year I had a great opportunity and I, you know it went well. But, like my brother's experience is way different than mine, me and coach Mendenhall, he's a great guy, but like we are two opposite personalities Interesting, I mean like hall he's a great guy, um, but like we are two opposite personalities and just like I mean like opposite, and so that was different, you know. So I wish I would have had, you know, maybe two years with men in hall, two years with sataki, because sataki is more my style.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know what I mean and it's so interesting too because, like my sister I mean played soccer all in high school, played um college ball and she it kind of what's made her fall out of love with it. Because, again, like she was amazing in high school. I mean I mean starting varsity, like all of the things that most people are, but then all the politics, coming in college and like you want to be that person and it doesn't work, and so it's not like it's cool to hear that you had these first two years that were like what am I doing here? And then all of a sudden, like this switch flipped and then you were that guy.
Speaker 1:Well, dude just to double down on what you just said like I was in the NFL for two years as well, yeah, and it was amazing, but it was the toughest two years of my life for a lot of reasons. But, like, do you go back to? Like you're a rookie, like they do not care about you at all and I'm an undraft? I was undrafted, a white guy receiver, like they. I don't know how anyone can look over my my head, as tall as I am, but like you're, you are nothing there.
Speaker 1:I was in kansas city in 2016, loved andy reed. I went there because of andy reed, um, and but it was like was great, but awful at the same time. So I'm like this is supposed to be my dream, but like I wake up every day with a knot in my stomach, whether I'm fired or not. You know what I mean. Like this is crazy, but like I mean, man, it turned you into the person you are. I was playing with the best athletes in the world and, uh, it was an amazing experience, you know.
Speaker 1:But, like to your point, like when the NFL comes on, like on Sundays, I'm like I don't care to watch that. Like that brings back some memories. They're like not all great, you know, but like, dude, an amazing experience to receive, like just even to look at like a paycheck coming to you from like an NFL team and it has the NFL logo on there and that you know the Kansas City Chiefs and the Cleveland Browns, and you're like man, I'm getting paid to play football. That's amazing and I can never, like I can't look at that experience and be like, oh, you know, it was terrible. No, it was my dream job, I'm living it, loved it. But there are some like there are some speed bumps, dude. There are some tough times where you're like I just need a break from the game, you know.
Speaker 2:What was that like? Because I mean, obviously in your entire life, up until that point, your life was football, living, breathing football, yeah, and at some point like talking with, I mean, one of my friends, nate Orchard. I played with Nate Orchard in Cleveland, oh hell, yeah, oh, that's right, because you I mean he went around so many different places, so many injuries, just like trying to make it work. And I mean it's got to be hard to, like A, have your dream come true and then kind of realize it's not the same dream that you had in your head. You kind of have to grasp with that because, again, it's still work, you still have to fight for the position, there's still going to be people that are going to be transferred, they're going to be cut, they're going to be I, these things, yeah, and so it's not like happily ever after, as soon as you get your nfl paycheck, you know yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And so how was that? I mean process going from. Again, like you have this high school experience of like, all right, top dog, I got recruited, humbled, rebuilt, and I'm that top dog, humbled, yeah. And then also like that next transition of going from oh, this has been my entire life, but now I kind of have to like fight for this, like figure out what my next step is. Straight up, yeah, dude.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, man, but that's one. That's. Life, like to have ups and downs too. It's also just. It's so rare, so rare, and so if anyone counts on this, they're just wrong. It's so rare to be top five or top 10 first round pick where you get a $30 million signing bonus wired to your account within a week of getting drafted and you're probably going to have a seven, eight year career. Like there's a group of 10 of those in every draft. Besides that, dude, everyone's fucking fighting bro, and I mean like for a job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dude, there was a second or third round pick when I was in Kansas City. He got cut before I did in Kansas City. Like it just goes. Like they were wrong about it, our analysis of him was wrong and he got cut. So, like, even if you're drafted third round, it's like, bro, you can be cut too. Yeah, I'm like man, he's a first round and he, he's riding the bench and he'll probably probably gone, you know, next year.
Speaker 1:Anyways, um, it is, it is. Uh, you have to be your self-talk, has to be so elite, cause, like I was, I was cut four times over over two years. But to like have someone say like, hey, it's not going to work out, and it could be different reasons. Maybe it's an injury. Hey, it's not going to work out, we're going to go in a different direction, whatever, whatever. It's like dude, millions of people hear about it. You're embarrassed as hell Cause you got cut, like in front of the world pretty much you know what I mean and you're like man, I'm flying back to utah to go, like, stay at my parents because this is pre-nil, so like I didn't have money coming from college. So, uh, anyways, I'm like I'm back at home, jobless.
Speaker 1:I thought I was in my dream job last week and I was full bliss, yeah, and now I'm jobless and I'm calling my agent like yo, what's the word? Who's calling me? He's like, oh well, this team's called, but they're going to want to wait a week. And this team and I'm like, no, no, no, I don't just sit around. This is not what I do. I always have a plan. I've always been on the team and they have a plan for me. What is going on? So you have these little mini moments how do I do this? And then a team picks you up and you're with them for six months and it's great and it's awesome, but you have to be ready to go through some shit. Yeah, it's very rare. There's probably five guys per locker room where no one in the world could fire them or cut them. Like their job is good. Yeah, everyone else is battling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everyone else has got battling. Yeah, everyone else is gonna not know something about if they're gonna make it or not. And is that hard to navigate that? Because you get like I, the sport I follow the most is golf and like, I love like golfer, just like colin morikawa is one that comes to mind because he's kind of an asshole, but frankly, but like that's what you have to be. Because he's like I am the best golfer in the world. I can beat anybody on any given sunday. I can do this. And some people, people are like, well, how egotistical I'm. Like, but you have to be that guy. Because if you're not like that elite mentality you're talking about, because if you're like, well, maybe I am, we're like, oh, this guy could be better, then you're not going to fight for it, you're not going to do that. But I mean, how does that? Or like relied on, or is it just kind of like, hey, this is business, we're fighting for our own spots.
Speaker 1:Dude, good luck it's a great question, but I would say, like, dude, from the automatic locks to making the roster, to like probably not gonna make it and anywhere in between, there's just a wide range. I would say most for the most part, dude. Um, guys are just, guys are down to earth, dope and cool, cool inner. Personally, like, let me, let me explain a little bit more. Like when I was there, I mean, dude, you have the starting quarterback. That's like, hey man, nice to meet you, you're brand new. Like I just want to introduce myself. You know what I mean? Not, not everything is like Tom Brady-esque. You know what I mean? At the end of the day, it's still like dudes who are 24 to 30. They're just bros. Bros. We've been getting screamed at all day by coaches. We've been grinding our ass off. It's 110 in Miami and we're sitting in the players' lounge just like vibing. Like, typically, guys love each other and it's awesome, cool, even though you're competing for jobs. Like dude, that builds like brotherhood Totally.
Speaker 2:Trauma bonding at its best, so a few people are going to relate with you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like there's 10 receivers there, only six are going to make it and everyone knows that. But it's like dude, you're actually homies. Yeah, you know what I'm saying. It's not like dude. I can't talk to you because I'm trying to make the team too, maybe in certain moments. But like you're all, you are a brotherhood that is there to protect each other from the coaches and the pressure and the media. Like you're all you got Totally Does that?
Speaker 2:make sense. I mean especially because, again, like there's only so many expert X people that go to that level and go to experience what it's like to be on an NFL roster, to get that NFL check and like that's one thing I've realized is, like the more kind of like niche and nuance your life is, the harder it is to find people like talk to about it that you can understand Totally and like in like the most. Yeah, and so I'm curious though, like that kind of like comparing those two locker room dynamics and the people that are you're found in both, from like BYU and NFL. I mean, would you say that kind of feeling?
Speaker 1:between players is similar or like. What was those differences between those two situations? There was a level of pressure in the NFL that wasn't there in college, but it's just the nature of the game, and what I mean by that is there are 140 Division I colleges. There are 32 NFL teams. On the Division I colleges there's 100 players on the roster. In the NFL it's 63 with the active roster and the practice squad, and so like the writing's on the wall that there's just an added pressure, yeah, but still, like in college you're, you're getting mother after all day.
Speaker 1:At practice, you're in intense meetings every day. A lot of them are just intense, calling you out. So when you get in the locker room with the boys, dude, that's like your safe haven. Cool, you know I'm saying which I would hope, dude, it has to be.
Speaker 1:Though like life is not like coaches screaming in you in the locker room or, sorry, at practice, meetings are intense, the media down your throat, you just lost this game, whatever. Like you're telling me a bunch of 1920 and 21 year olds aren't going to look for a place where they're just like safe to be boys. Yeah, like my guys that were in my wedding were guys that I competed against all four years in college over like who's going to be the number one receiver yeah, but they were in my wedding, yeah, and so it's like it actually. It actually breathes really strong relationships, that pressure and that intensity. I would just say the NFL is more intense and more pressure, got it. And also the only thing I'd say about like what the NFL and the whole in brotherhood is you move around so much in the NFL typically that people sort of wait to see how long you're around before they invest in like a long-term relationship with you yeah, cause they don't want to sit there and be like, hey, what's up, man?
Speaker 1:But we'll be like all of a sudden next week. That happens all the time and so that there's a natural waiting to build relationships. But in college it's like all right, you're welcome to the team, you'll be here for the next four years, we'll be homies, so right away you're sort of in In the NFL. There's like a we can start hanging out when you're on the team, or you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:There's a little bit of that, naturally, but rightfully so. You can only invest in a certain number of relationships in the NFL. Boys just want to be boys man, they want a vibe. Exactly. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that it's at the end of the day. People are like, well, that kind of sucks Like, do you want to go hang out? Do you want to go do this?
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, there's still 24 to 30 old guys like just they want to hang dude, like they want to make fun of the coaches two years forward. So you were the. You were browns, you were dolphins chiefs, browns, dolphins chiefs, browns, dolphins. Yeah, um ended with a an ankle injury that put me out for a full year, and I was in 2017, almost 2018, okay, and now, as it was at that point where I'm like, okay, it's, I was older because I started a mission. Now I've been here for two years and so now I'm like 27, 28 year old. At that point, I feel like it was just time to move on yeah, time for the next thing.
Speaker 2:What was that like mentally? Because, I mean again, you've been doing this your entire life, yeah, and now you're faced with this. All right, like it's tough man.
Speaker 1:it's tough now, yeah, truthfully. I want to say tough now, I just mean like there's moments where it comes up you're like man, I wish I would have had that 10-year nfl career that I wanted. But like, you move on and you, just you have your NFL and other industries. I think you know, for me, I always promised myself that when football was done, whenever it was, that I was going to be really freaking good at the next thing I did and do good just continually to find NFL moments in the next things I get into.
Speaker 1:And I think a lot of, especially football players, but a lot of athletes, when football is done, it's sort of like. It's sort of like life is over for them. You know, they don't have a job, they don't have, they don't even have other passions. They get into trouble. But for me, I'm like when I leave football I want to start a business. I want to make in my 20s an NFL moment in my 30s, 40s and 50s. I like that mentality so that when I'm 50, people say, oh my gosh, that's right, you did play football, but we're talking about the new things that I'm continuing to do.
Speaker 2:That's, in a perfect world, how I help life goes, and I agree with that a lot, because you see people in your life that kind of get stuck. They either put so much emphasis on one moment of life and, like when I see people drop off in a lot of like college, they're so stuck in college they like want to get good grades, want to get that major, want to get that internship all of a sudden they graduate. It's like, oh, like wait, I don't know like how to connect the next thing, or they don't know how the next part of their career transition into the next part of life or fail at something and they just stare at that closed door for so long. But there's a quote from uh world war z where brad pitts I mean surviving zombies he gets locked in this uh apartment in new york with this hispanic family and they stay the night there. They wake up. He's like all right, we gotta go. Then the dad's like, no, we gotta stay here. He's like, no, no, we gotta go.
Speaker 2:Movement is life, movement is vita, and so him and kid leave and the family gets turned into zombies because they stay there, and so it's like that, that just being able to say hey, I don't know, maybe I don't know what that next step is. Maybe I don't know what it is, I don't know what my next nfl moment is, but I gotta keep doing something straight up. Yeah, I'll believe it. Yeah, so I know that the next step went into pest control. Like, walk me through how that transition fell into my lap.
Speaker 1:Cool, I, I didn't want to do nothing. I was rehab, rehabbing. I was still training in football, me and my agent were still close and we're fielding calls and whatever. But I was like, well, let me get started on this quote, unquote, next thing, whatever that is, and let me start preparing. So if this doesn't work out, then I have something going, because I give him too ADD to have nothing going on. And this opportunity fell into my lap. So my business partner he had been in pest control for 15 years and I said, well, hey, I don't know anything about this whole thing, but I know communication, I know leadership, I think I'm a natural sales guy and could see myself doing that, so maybe I head up this side of things in the business. And we did, and we sucked ass for two years, frankly, but we got really, really, really good at what we do and it's turned out to be very, very fun and amazing and we sold the majority of our business in about a year and a half ago. So it worked out really really well.
Speaker 1:The transition, though, mentally, was unique, because I'm like man, like I still want to be there, you know, but I think it's over. I don't know, that was really tough, just the, just the not knowing. Yes, I've never had a point in my life where I just don't know, but that was one of them. So, uh, pest control was the first thing that fell into my lap and we've been going eight years and it's been awesome. And there was a point where I'm like I know how to do this business thing. At least I've shown on paper that I can. And if that's the case I hear this a lot from my entrepreneur buddies it is okay. I've sort of proven myself that I can make great money and have an awesome business or sell a business, and I hear this a lot, that it's.
Speaker 1:I had this feeling too, which was well, now how can I take that as well, and how can I take that knowledge and do something with a lot of impact in it as well? You know, what I mean and that's sort of where the Flow House story began is I got the confidence from running a business before, the confidence of playing football at the highest level. What if I applied that to something that also has a ton of impact for humans in the world, in our community, you know? And so the transition was hairy. It was weird. I didn't know what I was doing. I failed a lot, it was.
Speaker 2:Just how a lot of transitions can be. Yeah, very rarely is it this like sprinter? I mean sprinting at the Olympics baton handoff?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, right, and I think, in a perfect world I could have gone straight from football straight. Andy Reid and I had a good relationship. I could have gone right into being like his you know know right hand of some sort of work in his regime, but either way I would have been bottom of the totem pole. You know what I mean. I could have come back to bou and done you know color commentary or done some involvement with media or even coaching, but either way you're going back to sort of I got to start over.
Speaker 1:There was that part I was like this is I'm kind of tired of that yep I want to go from win to another win to another win, um, and I think that's why you know jumping to Flow House. I think that's why Flow House has been so exciting, because of how fast it started. There's a deep message behind it. We're doing so much good and it's become super exciting for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I want to talk about how that all came to be, because I know that there's, I mean, the story of you going to Norway and meeting the legend of Poland, because there's obviously the story of you going to Poland and I mean really diving deep into it and learning more. But we'd love to hear the kind of like the lead up to that and that story Dude yeah, how are we doing on time?
Speaker 1:You doing good. Oh, we're great, doing fine. All right, cool, yeah, so I'll dive into some of the stuff that was happening in my life. Of course, that's cool. So I'm done playing football. I just started this business and my mom had just passed away. It was 2017. And so I'm like I've lost a person, my mom, who gave me so much confidence and she's been my best audience. That's gone. I'm now not playing officially. I'm done playing football. That's gone. I'm now starting this new business and I'm not very good at it yet. So that felt weird. There's not be good at something in this new territory.
Speaker 1:I listened to this podcast that my wife put me onto by Lewis Howes, a big podcast. I don't know if you know Lewis, but went to visit Lewis Howes and he agreed to hang out because him and I had a very similar life resume, from losing a parent at a young age to the same injury in football, and our lives aligned. I said I want to get down there and talk to you about how you handle this transition, whatever. So we hung out, for what was supposed to be like a 30 minute workout turned into us hanging out for like three, four hours, cool, and just talking stories and whatever. And he's like I was sort of just venting to him like damn, this is crazy to go through so much like trough, like so much valley. I want, I want these peaks again. Anyways, I think he could tell like I needed a little shake up. And so he's like, well, I'm going to visit Wim Hof I didn't know who he was at the time, this is five years ago In Poland with a bunch of buddies and I'm giving this group together, guys who I feel like either need this message or have a great voice to project this message of Wim Hof to the world. And I said, you know, sight unseen. I'm like, let's go, let's do it. A couple months later I get a text from him saying we're going to poland next month, you in. So of course I said yes. So we flew out to poland and I was.
Speaker 1:We were all friends with lewis, who had a whim on his podcast and when challenged him like bring all your buddies, like let's get this, let's get this wim hof practice back to america, that was like the real principle of this cool 10 buddies are there. Have you met many of them before, or is it just, I've met zero, then Cool, and most of them I had never met each other either. But everyone knew Lewis as, like this nucleus Got it and from sunup to sundown, dude, it was just whim, freaking hoff moments. So we stayed at his what called a cottage in Poland and we all slept in cots. No joke, there was this open fireplace that was not to codeowing through the night, like, like, it was just we're in the we're in the trees, dude, and um, but it was special. Every morning was breath work. Uh, we did the meditations, the sound baths, these really long, extensive cold baths, his breathing techniques in the cold, these long hikes, um, at nighttime we'd come back and, uh, mike posner was there, the musician, oh yeah, mike's amazing. Mike was one of the guests that knew lewis and he would serenade us with his guitar every night. And what a treat it was. It was really. I was really cool, um, but that was every single day for seven or eight days.
Speaker 1:And the crowning event to this whole experience was we all did this hike to the top of Mount Sznezka in Poland and there was a rule that Wim said it's shorts and shoes and gloves only, no shirt, no pants, and we're going to hike the top of this mountain. It was like negative 20 degrees, insane. But you're at the end of this trip and you're like I've spent time with this guy, wim Hof, who's helped me feel like superhuman. I'm holding my breath for three minutes, I'm going in a cold bath up to my neck for 10 minutes, I'm jumping off cliffs in the cold water. I'm doing these meditations, all these new experiences that allowed us to feel this sort of superhuman depth. And when you're on this hike with Wim, you see this 60-something-year-old guy, wim, who's dressed just like us no shirt, shorts, boots and gloves. We hiked to the top of this mountain and we just felt like we could do anything because of being around him and his message.
Speaker 1:When we get to the top of this mountain, and I remember grabbing Jesse and saying, with all the euphoria and the high in my mind, like why did it take 10 Americans to come all the way from the States to Poland Just to learn how to get hot and cold and breathe? And I said let's do something about it, let's bring this back home and let's put this sort of, let's bottle this experience up and bring it to our community so people can have access to this type of healing which, by the way, it's so crazy. Like you know, I used to take my garbages to the curb in the winter and think I was going to die. You know what I mean. And now we're like. Now we're thinking we can. Our minds are so piqued from William and like all his little messages and we're thinking we can do whatever. And we did this four hour hike in negative temps and stayed alive and had a smile on our face. And I'm like man, if you look, if you boil his message down is get really hot in a sonic, get really hot in a sonic, get really cold, learn how to breathe properly and you can heal yourself and believe things about yourself that were never there.
Speaker 1:He's the same guy that he had like 12 subjects who he taught the Wim Hof method to, and then 12 subjects he didn't. He injected it. It's like a science study. I think he's in Denmark or something, but he injected all of them with like the flu and the people who he had taught the Wim Hof methods to, zero out of 12 got sick and all the people who didn't even know anything about his message and methods all got sick. And so he's the guy that's like healing people. His message is amazing. It's it's so basic, it's breath work. What state your mind is in in in hot and cold therapy? It's so basic, it's breath work. What state your mind is in in in hot and cold therapy? It's so basic, dude, like it's so basic. And we just wanted jesse and I wanted to make this, these basic things, fun and cool and bring them to our communities so people can feel they're superhuman as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so between this experience that you have with Wim Hof and Flow House starting, I mean how much time had passed. Five years, five years, okay.
Speaker 1:Because at first it was just like, yeah, let's do it, let's do something about it. And Jesse was busy with his stuff, I still was running my business. We thought at first it was just going to be us selling actual cold tub units and partnering with Wim. So we have some calls with his team, with Wim's team and Jesse, and we were going to actually build a cold bath unit, sort of like what Plunge is or you've seen all these portable units. We were going to do that.
Speaker 1:That was the first year concepting that. Then I did a tour of all the best bathhouses in the country and the world actually from Canada to New York City, to Portland, to freaking Dubai, mexico and then we said I really like this community model, because this experience that we did in Poland was like this community 15 people feel doing this together. I'm like this is truly the brand, this is truly the story that we're bringing back from Poland is people doing this type of healing together. And this is truly the story that we're bringing back from Poland is people doing this type of healing together.
Speaker 2:So, instead of doing a cold bath unit, let's build a community style bathhouse where it's a shared experience, exactly like we had. Yeah, I like how it's almost like you take this, let's call it NFL or college locker room, right, you have all these things going on, but the thing that brings you together is coming together. End of the day. I'm not saying you're doing cold baths and hot baths or in sauna and breath, work together, but there's still this the world is outside of there. We're coming together to bring it all together, bond together, have the shared experience. And then now you have flow house, which is again like we all have all our things going on in our life our craziness, the ups and downs, the good, the bad, the ugly. But then when you come together, you're like, hey, let's just be present for a minute, let's focus on I mean just. I mean being prepared mentally, being focused and like just elevating people together.
Speaker 1:I did a session today for 12, 13 people, um, at flow house. That's where I came from and we did this, uh, guided meditation to some music. It was an Odessa song, dude, it was just special. Man, like to get all these alpha bros. We're all laying down in a sauna to play this music and to put an intention behind it and in five minutes you're just buzzing, like there's this vibration raising state that you're in where you no longer have self doubt, you no longer are scared to start that business. Like you're just, you're just in full flow. It was a five minute song and you're feeling the rumbling seats from the sauna. You get your boys there who are in this group it was a company and you're just like.
Speaker 1:I feel like my peak self. I feel like I'm going to walk out of this building and my business will just be better because of who I am. And that's what's so exciting about Flow House is it's real man, the, the, the growth is real, the stuff like since today, the two owners of the company. We did this meditation together and it was just like us talking after. It was like it was just so good, they just uh, it was just deep impact and it was. We sat in a sauna for 45 minutes together, you know. So it's, it's it's. Flow House is first a message and a feeling like the the flow, house, flow, house, brick and mortar space is to get into the feeling flow house is a feeling first.
Speaker 1:Second, it's a community. It's are we doing this enough together to protect each other? And then, thirdly, it's a space. But you just go to the space to get into that peak state and that's. That's what we care about is, what is it doing to the human if the human is vibrationally aligned?
Speaker 2:look at what they're going to do in their community yeah you know what I mean, totally and that's one thing I mean when I went down last week with you because, again, like I mean, cold plunges in sauna in general are very, I mean, trendy right now, and it's one thing to be like okay, cool, there's a sauna, there's a hot bath, like ready set, go do whatever the hell you want. But when you bring in again the intentionality of feeling those higher vibrations and feeling that feeling of like I can go conquer anything in the world right now, yeah, I just got to go do it because I mean so much of us are always in our heads or like have all these other responsibilities and other things that we have to juggle, that it just gets in the way. But then once you can just have like a space and a place and the right people, then you do feel that and it is like it's I mean it's tangible. And also do you mean just having such like a beautiful space that people do want to be there and do you want to join. And even when I was there there was a guy yeah, I was in charles, yeah, yeah, that shout out I mean and like because, like, every time I go into a place like that sawn in general, I'm like all right, like screw all of you guys like blinders up and I'll do my thing, but it was fun just like. I mean charles, like oh, what are you like, what do you do? And then the next thing we know he's talking about how we just retired her from california. His friends are all I mean his family's all here and like just hearing kind of like what his priorities are in life and and so it's fun to have that and also like the programming.
Speaker 2:I think is a too, because I think a lot about community right now as I'm trying to build a lot more of it with the podcast and one thought that I've had over the past week a ton is like a lot of people will claim community is, I mean, it's another big buzzword right now. But the biggest thing about community is you have to show up, like to be in the community. You have to go, show up to the community, you have to go to the events, you have to be there for people, and sometimes it's hard for people to show up to something unless there's like a reason and so to be like hey, like this place this time, this is the program, these people are coming, come join, yeah, whereas if it's just like a gym membership, it's like, yeah, it's here whenever come join. A lot harder to to feel that, especially to start a new habit totally totally, totally, totally, and there's so many places that are popping up.
Speaker 1:But there's a place called Sweat House. Nothing but respect for them. They're all over the country now, but it's individual rooms and you go and just do your own little thing by yourself in your own individual room, like a Sonic Hold Express, like get in there, get my Sonic Hold head to work, you know, yeah, which is cool. And so I have nothing but love and respect for anyone that's putting health and wellness in the world. It's just that I think our story impacted us in a way where it's community-based, it's experience-based. And how do we bottle up that Wim Hof experience and put it into an accessible hour long session for people to go enjoy? Now, it's not, by the way, it's like no one comes in to do a session of flowhouse. Thinking about the story I had with Wim, it has nothing to do with anybody. I just think that that was our attempt.
Speaker 1:Is feeling first, feeling, feeling feeling and leading with the post flowhouse feeling is okay. Well, how do we get them to feel that way? Peak confidence, peak flow. I just yeah, we know the feeling. You know it's the same feeling If you're wondering what, like, well, flow state is and peak flow. The feeling is like, if you're an athlete, it's like being in the zone where you just can't miss that shot or you're just so confident you're not thinking about anything else. The the equivalent to being in the zone as an athlete is to being in flow state as a human. You know, yeah, repeat, confidence. You know everything's in the kind of runners high that exactly so you just can't.
Speaker 1:It's right there and that's what we want to make accessible to to people is that shared guided experience? And I actually think most people talk about Flow House wrong. They'll describe Flow House as a sonic, cold bath space, and they're dead accurate. But in a perfect world it would be oh yeah, flow House. That's the space where you go to get in peak vibration. They use music, they use aroma, they use sauna, they use cold and now it's like not even a sauna place. It's just a box that uses certain elements the lighting, music, aromas, classes, the heat, the cold to get you into the feeling.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? Yeah, it's not no transaction anymore, but it's geared towards finding the right outcome and using the right tools to get.
Speaker 1:Exactly so. That's in a perfect world. That's what we become known for is oh yeah, that's a place you get into flow state. That's the place you go to raise your vibration and people stop describing it as a tonic cold which I don't tempt me with a good time.
Speaker 2:I mean now that I've gone, like I get it and like I'm always like that curmudgeon whenever it's like, oh, I have to go do this, I have to wake up early, I've got to do that. But then, once I get it, I'm like like all right, all the doubts out and I know, I know how to feel anymore. Well, how was? How was your experience there.
Speaker 1:Give me the oh yeah, like it was sickly honest. You know you've sauna cold before.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like I think I mean a couple of things because, like I usually so I'm a member shower, like I want to put a cold dungeon but they have, so usually a cold shower cycle with sauna, and it's usually just me and myself like in my thoughts doing whatever, which is good, but it's amazing.
Speaker 2:But it was fun with flow house to have a that intentionality behind it and also just kind of get out of my own typical spaces, because I think there's something that when you take your like can remove yourself from your typical humdrum of life and plop yourself in a new space like hey, like new experience, new place, like mentally refocus, you know. Then I also like, because I'm a big I mean quote vibes guy, unquote and so if I walk into a space and I'm like I don't really like, I feel like I'm in a hospital, I don't like this. Like there was a place I went to semi recently that it was uh, you know, like that, like this is this isn't it, which is fine, like, do your thing and everything. I mean it's expensive to build out spaces, but when it's done right, it's done right, and so if there's a place where I can feel like I have not necessarily like the permission to do it, but I feel like I can do it there and not have, like these other voices of like do I want to be here? Like, yeah, that kind of takes me out of it, but, like, the more I can feel in, it is great.
Speaker 2:Um, so I do like, and I also just love like the community aspect of it because, like a, there's an accountability piece of it because, again, like, I can go hop in the cold shower, be like all right, I'm gonna be in this for two minutes and the next thing I'm like oh, you know, it's 130, 145. Yeah, we're round up, let's go back. But then when you're like sitting next to someone, it's like all right, three minutes, we're in there and like I'm not going to be the first one to get up. If I'm next to this guy, that's three minutes. Um, but that's like again, like that's how you elevate each other and get to that.
Speaker 2:That higher vibration is you hold that accountability, have that space and then also just being able to be like oh cool, we just did something, either unique, hard, difficult, or also just because you're forced to be so present that it's so much easier to connect with the person next to you, because you're both right there, yeah. So I think, like again, and doing a cold sauna isn't bad, it's good but there's like this other level that brings people and personalities because, like again, like anything that's ever happened that's good. In my life and in all the episodes that I've recorded, no one's ever done it alone, like no one's ever had this amazing life that they're just like oh yeah, no, no, I did everything alone, didn't need anybody. And so I think, the more that we can remember that and bring in the right people and bring it and find that right community, then, like, you're always going to be better off straight up, introvert, extrovert, whatever, like it's it's always going to be the right people that get you to that place.
Speaker 1:And, dude, I also realize that like I, we could have started a sweat house. That's the place as the individual rooms. I could have started a business like that and it would have done a lot of good and maybe even been easier. Frankly, like building community is not like it's. You have to, you have to put in work, um, but I just realized I'm like wait, what do I like to do? I'm like, wait, no, build up. Build a 100 person sauna. Like let's build the world's biggest cold bath. Like it's like. Like I want the, I want community. I want friends. I want I want my best friends, companies, to come in here and use this space. Like I want community. I want to see someone I love all the way on the other side of the sauna. That like point out, but that's what I want, that's like that's actually me, and so to have a business that's like a direct sort of a offshoot from like who you are and what you like, that's really fun to be a part of. That's what I get to do every day.
Speaker 2:Like, imagine if you did your experience in Poland with Wim Hof and just there was no other buddy else with you, as either just you and him or just you alone, it probably wouldn't have been. I'd be kind of sick. It would be sick Like you and you, it wouldn't all would be sick. But like to have those people exactly is is is great and like in the same thing with with flow house and having more people there and having that experience together Cause I mean, I kind of always just takes me back to like that locker room in college and football ball of like it's easier to go through it together and especially like that consistency, because, again, if you go into the sauna, you see the guy over there.
Speaker 2:Like, oh, last time we were here you were talking about how you wanted to do that project, how did it go? He's like dude, it's been going super well. It didn't work out with this and I'm doing that and like I wanted to show you about it. And again, like you start to understand people intimately because it's very cold and, yeah, he keeps seeing people in the same places and you start asking more questions and get to know people better. Yeah, and that's when even more magic happens of the community on top of it, right up dude.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, and there's gonna also be people that are just like you know what, not my thing. The community, community aspect of it's not my thing. That's totally fine. But in business you don't get the chance to solve every problem. You just get to solve one, maybe two, and the one that we're solving is the chronic stress too many people with anxieties, too much loneliness post COVID and lack of community. That's why, like why are we seeing so many running clubs pop up? It's not because they're all making money and they're crushing it. It's because a bunch of people wanted more community. So run clubs popped up out of a natural need for more community. You know, totally Men's groups, women's groups, like communities sort of screaming back. And that's the problem that we wanted to solve at Flow House was making it community-based.
Speaker 2:Totally. You know what I mean and I love that. Like on the topic of community and using run clubs and other things as examples, like the communities we had pre-COVID were almost just like spoon-fed to us and not really an intentional way of doing it, Because a lot of it was I mean, especially in my life before. It was a lot of work because there's an office and everything, and especially when I lived in seattle, both me and my partner at the time are the people we spend the most time with. Are people from work, because we weren't from there. That's the most people that we met. Yeah and like, which is like, sure, it's intentional, I'm spent like wanting to spend time with them and I'm calling them, but it's not like. I'm like, oh wait, are we doing this because we're just in the same place and kind of same stage of life or do we actually have shared values, shared experiences, shared um hobbies and activities that we want to do?
Speaker 2:And I think now people are being a lot more intentional, a lot more present, of saying like, oh, like, I do like to run, I do want to be around like-minded people that want to do that, and those are the communities that I want to build, compared to just saying like, oh yeah, here's what's happening, here's what's around me, let's do this.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And so in the same way, like cool, like I do want to have a community of people who do want to be present, be mentally resilient and strong, and people that do want to experience, live, love, yeah, exactly. And like that's one thing I've realized in my life with people is like I can't. I do a lot better with people who are participating in life, like I can't do. The people who just like throw stones from their glass house all day, yeah, dude, never like take a risk on themselves, never champion themselves, just kind of clock in and clock out of whatever their day is. Like again, like everybody has things that they need to do, everybody has things that they're going through and like do it. But like my people are the people who show up in their life and want to have their life and intentionally live the thing that they want to.
Speaker 1:Yeah, straight up it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, straight up it's uh, yeah, community takes time. Uh, because it's real. You know, it's not a mirage, like a lot of followers isn't necessarily a community. A lot of people knowing you isn't isn't a community. So community truly takes time, like we've had, you know, five people join this week to actually be a member. We've had, you know, plenty of people come Um, but those people it'll take time for them to connect with the other members and the other people and build, like, this strong relationship. So community takes time and it's the we're okay taking that time, like we're okay with it being like.
Speaker 1:Uh, like the easiest thing for us to do would have been building a space with eight individual rooms and eight individual saunas and cold baths, because you don't have to build a community, yeah, at all. Just put a schedule online. Okay, here you go. It's easier. You know what I mean. But now we're throwing events so people can meet outside the space, because that's truly what we're about. But that is what we're doing is building I don't say it lightly because it's not easy, but it's building a community where people know each other, they care about each other and they and they, they literally protect each other. Yeah, they don't know that they're protecting each other, but they literally do because you're protecting each other's mentals. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And into Flow House 2, people open up to you a lot. You have more oxytocin when you're sitting in a sauna and after a cold bath. You have so much oxytocin in your brain serotonin, dopamine but oxytocin specifically is called the trust drug. Serotonin is the love drug, so you feel symptoms of love. So when I have oxytocin and serotonin present like what a better way to meet someone where I instantly just trust you I'm more trusting because I have oxytocin going on. So I'm just going to trust you for no reason. I'm just going to and I'm also going to have a lot of love and sympathy for you, even though I don't know you, because it's just present in my mind. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And so conversations go a really cool place because you have those happy chemicals in your mind to allow it to go somewhere. And then you add some music, you add something guided to it and it becomes this sort of orchestrated experience and we call the pre and post feeling. At Flow House people come in different moods but everyone always leaves with that same Flow House mood afterwards. It's so cool because everyone has the same chemicals present. They have the dopamine, they have the serotonin, they have the oxytocin. So there's more high fives, there's more hugs, there's more laughs, there's more giggles, there's more long-winded answers and conversations, because people are just letting it out because they have the chemicals present. Yeah, I mean. So that is. That's been the funnest thing to see.
Speaker 2:Cool, no, and I love it too because like, obviously the first location for now is down in pleasant grove, you're in lehigh, but I mean I'm curious of so you have these experiences of um, college football, nfl, uh, starting a business in this. But was there ever a party that was like, hey, maybe we take this back to Portland or was it always going to be here in Utah? You mean just business in general, that, and that.
Speaker 1:And Flow House specifically, flow House, specifically, dude, I want to be in Portland, so bad. I hope we're. I hope we're in Portland in the next two years Cool, I do. Uh, cause, part of the brand story is um, let's bring this back to our communities. And so, jesse, it still lives in Atlanta, georgia, so I want to get one there. He's from New York City, so we've already talked about putting one there and I want to get one to serve my community and people back in Oregon.
Speaker 1:Cool, but I went to Boston. I was in Boston yesterday, but the day I got there, every city I go to, I always look up saunas near me, naturally, naturally. And there was like nothing. It's one of the oldest cities in America and there was nothing. Like I was just bothered by it. I'm like what the hell?
Speaker 1:We ended up finding a place that was brand new, it just opened, but even then it was hard to even access the sauna, so we did a steam room instead. There was a bunch of individual room places you could go to and I'm like, wait a minute, wait a minute, I'm talking to places downtown. That is like it's a derivative of the city, of the culture Sorry, the culture of the city Like you can. It's made for Boston. It's a place for people to go sauna and connect and it brings the city together. There was just nothing. So I'm like let's go, let's bring this back home to Portland, let's go to Boston. Now there's a business plan that very much is finances matter, you know. But I want to get there because the message wants to get there. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I love that. I mean, especially, if you're passionate about something, then you want to bring it to people you care about. And you want to bring it to people in general Because, like, it's one thing to have your own personal belief in your experiences, like, oh, this has changed my life, changed my mentality, changed my perspective, but then, once you believe it enough, then you just want to evangelize it to everybody.
Speaker 1:And as soon as you have the space and see people go through the same experience like I, want everybody to experience that straight up. Yeah, and that's where. That's where we're at now.
Speaker 1:That's where right now is how can we get this to the most people as possible? How can we connect? How can we have an outlet in every major city where flow house is accessible and, uh, it can do the good that we wanted to, you know, yeah, uh, I mean I hope I'm not coming across like we're going to save the world, as if we're like some. I want to do my part. I want to give people places to feel that peak vibration. Yeah, I just want to make that accessible, you know, and get as many people in as possible, and we've seen some good impact already from our first location. We've been open a month, dude, five weeks, maybe six, so it's so new, but it's just very exciting to give people that space. Man, yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:Exactly, it's all we need A space and a place to do the right thing, and people are looking for it and, just like your experience in Boston, it's not as easy to find as people would In your home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, people in every do. Yeah, it's very accessible there and I want that here. I'm excited to do it. You know, someone's got it. Someone's got to freaking do it, you know. Tell me about. Your viewers, though, are uh, have you guys done a lot of health and wellness collabs have? Have you guys done a lot of health and wellness collabs, have you?
Speaker 2:guys done a lot of health and wellness, trying to do more, because that's something that's always priority for me, because I contemplated doing a run club but there's so many run clubs I'm like I don't want to throw another wrench into that, but it is very health and wellness conscious, a lot of athletic people, a lot of people who just resonate with that a lot more, and so I think it's something that people would want, cause I know that there's like a lot of things similar that are happening, but I don't think anything's hitting like like scratching that itch quite the way that it should be.
Speaker 2:Like I have a friend who's trying to do, I mean, a similar concept in LA and he's had to kind of pause it because of some other life stuff, and like he's like it was funny Cause, like I, he had to kind of pause it because of some other life stuff, and like he's like it was funny because like I, he, we, we got together when he was in town last and he told me like yeah, like I totally get it, like good luck, and then then you'd reach down. I was like oh, like finally like someone's doing it right, and I even messaged him like oh, have you heard of flow house. He's like, yeah, he's like, honestly, if everybody who's doing it, they're doing it the most right, cool, and so it was like the most validation I needed from it. But, yeah, I think there's a community aspect around mental health wellness that I'm trying to find the right angle into and do it right.
Speaker 1:What do you care about most in the podcast? Like I know, yours is very information based, letting people know what's in Utah County. Sorry, utah in general, salt Lake County, um, but as it turned into more than that like and that's been like good, great question.
Speaker 2:So the goal? So last year the goal is podcast, make something entertaining, made something people feel like they know what more, what's going on and connected with this, the space that we all live and share in. And then this year the whole goal is building community out of it, finding the right events, finding the right places, the right partners to bring people together.
Speaker 1:But why, though? I'm glad you're going that direction, but why? Why that heaven?
Speaker 2:So the conversation I have the most with people is I don't know how to meet new people, I don't want to go out to the bars more, I hate dating apps and I don't know how to make new friends. And so, and again'm going to like the examples I talked about a community of like it's more than a space, it's more activity, but it has to be like some sort of thing of a specific time, specific place, specific people that people resonate with more. And you see that in so many different aspects. I mean even like restaurants and food and beverage. You see how many restaurants are throwing these curated nights or special menus or pop ups, and you see it everywhere where people do want like a reason to go to a place at a certain time. Otherwise they usually just won't.
Speaker 2:And so trying to find this sweet spot of what people want to do in the right way. And so there's there's like ideas of mental health, you know, just health and wellness in general. There's things of I mean just social experiences and like we had a game night at HK Brewing. That was really fun. We're having this weekend we're doing a bikes and brews tour and a couple breweries around Salt Lake and biking is like 75 degrees and nice, and so those usually go well, but also just making sure that have the right programming that can appeal to that. There's something for everybody if they want it that's cool.
Speaker 1:So turn just entertainment information based like wait a minute, it sounds like you kept your ear to the ground almost and we're like yo, this is actually a need in my podcast can sort of fill that need exactly. That's cool. I mean that that gave you more work. You know what I mean. Like building communities like it's, it's uh, that's not easy no communication with everybody. It's what, what people like, how do I serve them, which takes a lot of brain space, doesn't you know?
Speaker 2:a lot of trial, a lot of failure, a lot of vulnerability, but again, like I, solving problems and helping people improve their lives is a lot harder than people think.
Speaker 2:It is. Um, and it again to your point it's work, like, but it's so fun when work becomes something that you want to do and it motivates you instead of just like, oh, I have to clock in again, I hate my boss and I don't even know if I like what I do does it really make my life better? And so so I would say like the more that it it definitely like, aligns with my values, and like the more that I've gotten to know so many people and like just know all of these random little details and tidbits of, I mean, the entire area, and I've gotten to know so many amazing people that like that experience that I feel and helps me feel so much more close to the city, the people, more close to the city, the people. If I can give people a little drop of that experience, then even better. Where they can feel like their neighborhood, their place that they live in is their home and not just a place where they park their car and sleep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, straight up, dude, I have a random question. It's just like. It's like rhetorical almost, but like so many people say, like us, like we say the words, so many people need community, it is true, like it's so true, but nobody acts like they need community. Yeah, is that a question? Is that, is that comment or slash question makes sense? And like I want to know why, like you meet someone I mean it's a say, it's, it's like mental health almost.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I could talk to someone and on the front, on the outside, they're the happiest person I know. You look behind the scenes, though, like they're severely depressed or anxious or whatever. And I heard that, you know, maybe from a friend or something. I'm like wait, that guy, that guy, like he's the happiest guy I know, but for whatever reason, like I don't go about my day and be like, yeah, this person needs community, this person needs community. Like, but everyone does. Yeah, every freaking person does. But I think we're such ego is a great thing, but I think a lot of us, and myself included, are so ego forward and ego forward facing. We're like, when we're talking to someone, we got to make it seem like we're good.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:At all costs. You know what I'm saying. Like I got to make it yeah, I got to make it seem like the business is good, my family's good, Everyone's good, but then if you look behind the curtain you're like that's not actually what's happening Totally, and so that was just a random thought. That came to my mind is like people aren't screaming for community, because I think it's you're supposed to put on a front as a human like I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good, I'm good. But what I've noticed is like, even like the strongest people I know on paper, they'll come to Flow House and they're like man, I need this community. I'm like you, You've always been good Totally, you have all the business connection in the world.
Speaker 2:But like uh, I don't know, even know why I said that but it's like, on that note, like I think, because like community is of such like a commonly used word that a lot of people I mean, when you push them on, like what does community mean? Like I don't know, like my people, I guess, like okay, so what does that mean? Like your people, like who are they? What does that feel? And like a big thing for me is trust, because, um, when I think of you, I'm using an example of like oh yeah, yeah, business is fine, family's great, I'm doing awesome, but in their head they're like actually never been worse. That happens in almost every interaction.
Speaker 2:Totally, I was going to give you the and that's inherently part of the problem. It is why we need a quote on community, because everybody needs people in their life that they can be brutally honest with and tell them exactly what's going on. Otherwise, it's just going to sit there, it's going to spew, it's going to be caught up in there. Because, like one quote I saw the other day that I really liked, that I've mentioned, is the opposite of depression isn't happiness, it's expression. And so, like for me, like one thing that I've done over the past few years that's helped a lot, is painting, because it helps me express myself. It gets my brain in a completely different way. Let me see some paintings. I can show you a lot. But like and that's been a big one but then also realizing that everything you need to do needs to be inwardly gratifying, not externally gratifying. So it's like that voice you're talking about, of like, oh yeah, everything's fine, everything's great. Like, do you look how everything awesome is? Cause they're so motivated by you seeing them as a positive person. Instead of I want you to see me happier, I want you to see me succeed the way I want to succeed, not the way that I think you want me to succeed.
Speaker 2:And so there's also part of that. That is this process of like, knowing who you are, your values, what you want and what it takes Cause like, the thing that I think of a lot is like I don't think anybody cares about what I do. That's fine, but I do. And if I don't care, then no one else is ever even going to care, even if it's something that's going to be for them. And another one of the conversations I have with a lot of people on top of the don't know how to be people don't know what to do, is.
Speaker 2:I followed everything people told me to do. I went to school, I got married, I had kids, I got the job, I doing the career path. But here I am now, in like my early or mid thirties or even younger or older, and I don't like this and I don't know who I am. I don't know what makes me happy and like similar to community. It's like takes time, but like there's this process of getting to know yourself and actually what truly does make you happy, what you do want to do.
Speaker 2:And once you you do that, then it kind of goes into the example I use of like a run club where you're like, oh, actually I do love spending time with people running, I do like being outside, I do like people who think like-minded like this and have this endurance, like mentality, and I want to be around that. But that also takes you realizing that you want that too, not just joining the run club because there's a bunch of cute girls there that are running in short shorts. So it's like this inverse process of you have to know yourself, to know what you need, and then, once you do that, then you bring in the right people and if you're the right people, then like, actually it's taking one more step back. When you know who you are, know what you're good at, then you're doing that very intentionally, and when you're being yourself, that's the best thing that you can ever be.
Speaker 2:Whenever you're faking anything, you're never going to be as good as what you're actually inherently inside, like meant to do. And then once, the more you do that, the more you get better at it, which builds this confidence. And then it surrounds you with the right people who then like, perpetuate that even more. And then all of a sudden, there's this confidence and value and growth that just keeps this flywheel going and going and going. And so that's one thing. I mean. It's taken time of probably the past like four or five years to really get to a point where I'm like, oh my God, like things are working out, because I know what I wanted to do and I know what I had to do to make it work out Straight up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that. I can tell you thought about that one for sure. To add something, come to me when you were talking, like, if you want to have a really successful career or business, listen to every mentor, ask the questions, do the normal path to get there the college, the internship, like whatever right, listen to everybody. If you want a good career and you want a good business, listen to everyone who's gone before you and done it. But if you want a successful life, sometimes it means listening to nobody. You know what I'm saying yeah to nobody. You know what I'm saying yeah Because, like, I was a product of a system and I'm so glad I was, because I wanted to be good at football, so I jumped into the football system that had taught me when to wake up, what to eat, how hard to work and how to play football in high school, college, nfl, right. So listening to other people, the guys who've gone before me, was the exact thing I should have done, because I think you should listen to more often than yourself. When you know, listen to a mentor, listen to someone who's gone before you and done it. But if you want a successful life, like a lot of times, it means listening to nobody. What I mean by that is like correlation is not always causation, and so like if you think the happiness to life because you see happy parents is like, okay, they got married at 21. My dad finished school, he went on to get his master's here and then he went and got a job here, and so in maybe a youthful mind you'll say, okay, they're happy, they got married at this time. He went to this career, so I should be happy as well. But that also sounds crazy because that's not the truth. Like if I went into the same career my dad or some of my friends' dads did, I would be very unhappy, right. And so I think I don't know why I'm saying this, but I'm saying it because it's kind of flowing out. But like, if you want to have an insanely successful career, go find someone who's had that insanely successful career and just follow that roadmap.
Speaker 1:But I think, especially in Utah, you get a lot of the trends that happen Married, young kids, young. They seem happy, they got this great job. Let me go do that. And then you realize you're like wait a minute, who the hell am I? I didn't make those decisions, I was just copying someone else and that's probably called a midlife crisis. You know where they're like, what is going on. I think we're more conscious now. Our midlife crisis is sort of happening like in the early in our early thirties now, with how fast information travels, uh, with social media and everything, but like that I don't know. I don't know why I'm saying this, but I think, just based on what you said, like we just saw, like career listen to everybody If you want a life that you're like. I chose to do that, I chose that. I chose that. I chose that that requires listening to nobody.
Speaker 2:but just yourself. And there's like one of my pet peeves that people ask about or like talk about. It was like, oh, like, what's your morning routine? What do you do? I'm like my morning routine is personalized for me because that's what I need with this, and so many people are like, oh, I need the formula to be happy, I need the formula for success. I need the formula for this Because we've grown up in this world, as I mean being in like 34, like younger millennial, and even everybody can relate to it at some extent.
Speaker 2:Like the world we're in today is like oh, spotify will tell you what to listen to. Instagram will tell you what to like, the television will tell you. Like, we're always being told. We've grown this concept of like oh, just tell me what to do and I'll do it. Like, just like, even like friends, like, oh, like I graduated from college, like tell me what I need to do.
Speaker 2:I'm like no, like you need to tell yourself what's right, yeah, or else you're just going to end up in this place. That isn't your own journey, it's someone else's and it's like it's. And again, going back to the example of like how I think about podcast interviews, of like a walk in the woods like, sure, have plan, but keep your head on a swivel because there's going to be opportunities to come. There's going to be things that, through your inner voice, like, hey, you actually don't like doing this, yeah. And so listen to yourself and like because, yeah, you could have a great career as an accountant and go get your master's and go to your CPA and go do all that. But you might find out that you actually want to, I mean, do something completely different that you never would have thought of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that you never would have thought of. Yeah, dude, oh dude, do you want to hear something called the celery test? Yes, okay, I don't know why it's called the celery test, but it is. But it's on this very topic and it's one of my favorite examples. I teach it all the time. Have I teed it up nicely? Yes, oh yeah. Have you ever heard of Zappos?
Speaker 2:shoes, of course, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think they were bought by Amazon for like a billion dollars. Tony Hsieh was their CEO. Rest in peace. He passed away Kind of crazy, but he was their CEO and they were known for one thing, which is world's best customer service. And I even had buddies that would go down for like these culture tours of Zappos just to see how they were doing it and they how to be business owners, cause they had the world's best customer service, like that's what they're known for. Um, anyways, uh, their, their brand scaled quickly. They sold for a billion dollars. Their CEO was like, I think, pretty young at the time, um, and he was interviewed cause people wanted to know, like how are you doing this? You know, and he was interviewed and, um, the person interviewing him was like so how do you get this amazing culture? How do you do it? Tell us. And he's like Tony Hsieh, the CEO of Zappos was like you know, we got the fridges are stocked.
Speaker 1:We got snacks for our employees to come and snack on the kitchen, you know. We got ping pong tables. We got those People are playing those. You know, we just have a great culture and we care about each other and gave some like sort of like generic answer Dude, what do you think happened across?
Speaker 2:the country with ping pong tables and snacks in your kitchen nationwide, Like tech companies. Costco blew up and everybody then there's seven fridges.
Speaker 1:Now there's food everywhere and everyone about a ping pong table, like national ping table sales, literally. Like you saw an uptick. Yeah, you know what I mean, because the guy who has this crazy awesome business, he said that's what he said. He said food in the kitchen and ping pong tables. Maybe we should give it a shot too. Yeah, and our culture would be just like theirs. Dude, if you say that out loud, that's the dumbest comment I've ever said. But food and ping pong, that's going to save the world, but like that's called not trusting your intuition, right, yeah, and so I think, I think, I think and I've learned this from so many cool people but when I read this celery test which means every time you hear information, celery test it Is that really going to help or is that just a waste of money to buy a paper on the table? Yeah, you know, but Tony Hsieh said it still Like I'm going to filter what he said and said that's not going to help us. That is a special moment to be able to take in information and then filter it because you know what's right for your business. I mean, how many people like their whole day is scrolling and they have, you know, andy Elliott screaming at him through the phone, or Hormozy giving him information, or Gary Vee or whatever. So they're being told, told, told, told, told and they actually, they, actually, they completely forget that they have insanely cool intuition. Like insanely cool intuition. And I think this is back to like. The life thing is like my. I don't even have advice. I don't really have advice ever, but like my.
Speaker 1:What I think I've done is I've really started to lean into my intuition. And if the outcome is weird or different than the normal path, who cares? I'm doing it. If my morning routine looks way different than the most successful guy in America, who cares? I'm doing it because that's what I want to do and I don't think that's like an ego thing, it's just like what if I trusted the most important person I should trust, which is me?
Speaker 1:You know what I mean. Like what if I just trusted him that he's going to get it there? What if I read books so I can learn nuggets? But what if every sentence I read in the book from the greats, I sellery test and say is this going to apply to me? Yeah, yeah, but Mitch, it should. It's the billionaire he's giving you advice Maybe. My business partner at Flow House is a billionaire, jesse Itzler. Him and his wife are billionaires. There's been times where he said stuff to me about what we should do at Full House and I'm like nah, like nah. But most of the time I'm like okay, yeah, you're right, like whatever you say is probably going to be the right thing, but like, just imagine, imagine only listening to what's your morning routine. Okay, I'm going to apply that. What are you doing throughout the day? I'm going to apply that.
Speaker 2:And so many people hear, live in this world where you see people with an airpod in their ear all the time, but very rarely do they take the time to take off the airpod and think about what they just listen to and apply it to themselves. So it's usually just like this in and out, without this black box of thinking about it. And because, again, it has to be personalized no one is amazing at everything. There's no one in my life I go through, I go to for every single point of advice, and so to know people's strengths, know people's weaknesses and play into it is also part of like again, building that. I wouldn't say community on that part, but like, maybe like the right network, yeah, having those right people, because, like again, there's people you're going to go to like with Jesse and ask him, but there's probably things you're not going to go to Jesse for, no matter how much money he had.
Speaker 1:Maybe, yeah, and look he's got, he's man. That dude has got some great nuggets and thoughts and I've learned so much from him. Oh my gosh, it's amazing. But I think everyone should have the strength to be like you know, nah, mom and dad, like I'm now 22 years old, I don't have to get married, yeah, and that's a sign of strength. Yes, you know what, like you know what I, I uh, thanks for that promotion.
Speaker 1:But you know what? Like I, actually I'm actually good, I actually wanted to step down and go laterally and be over here, like you know, just cause someone's your boss, someone's your parents, um, someone's your mentor, whatever, like, make sure that every bit of information has to go through your intuition filter first. Yes, you know what I mean Totally, and that's strength. Man, that's so much. I mean you trust yourself. Your body is going to tell you to do a lot of things If you believe in God. I do. Like God's going to tell you a lot. So, like, make sure that everything you learn goes through that filter. Man, you know what I mean. And then, when you know what's been spit out after your intuition filter, you got a business that you love and you know fits you to a T. You're going to lead well, man. You're going to lead with some passion and you're going to live a passionate life because you know it came through you first.
Speaker 2:Well, Mitch, I want to end with the two questions I always ask everybody at the end of every episode is, first, if you could have someone on the Small Lake City podcast and hear more about their story and what they're up to, who would you want to hear from?
Speaker 1:Jeremy Andrus Traeger CEO. All right, yeah you mean for you to interview. Oh yeah, oh, he's my one of one. He's actually the only person I take. Every single thing he says I do, he's my one of one, he, I do, he's like he's. He's my one of one. He's. He's on our board at Flow House. But Jeremy Andrews, the CEO of Traeger, he's a one of one CEO, one of one human father. Oh my gosh, he's a and Traeger is a.
Speaker 2:It's embedded in the Salt Lake brand now. It's so like Traeger has been cause A. The story of just like with him, with Traeger being like oh, here's this brand, that's like kind of failing and not doing great. I'm going to take and make it something amazing. And all of a sudden you're like, yeah, like it is now a thing Like I never knew what a smoker was. And then now all of a sudden, every single one of my friends has it.
Speaker 1:They have a billion dollar brand.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and now it's fun to see, like their office that they have down at Post District and it's this amazing space and so it's like again. It's like you never would have thought. Let's see that probably been like 10, 12, 13 years ago. It's like 20 years ago. Yeah, Like the thing that's going to bring a ton of people and something together is this like smoker, Like what the hell's wrong with you?
Speaker 1:It's because he's got a great. He's got a great. Why, like? Their tagline at Traeger is not let's, let's smoke meat. Their tagline is we're going to use our grills, our product, to bring families and friends together like never before. Yeah, like from like their mission statement, which I probably just botched. From that alone, you're like oh, I support these guys. Yeah, I support them. Cool, you know what I mean. So that's my one and only answer, even though there's a lot of great ones. First answer.
Speaker 2:Deal. And then, lastly, if people want to find more information about you, about Flow House, or come catch a flow, what's the best place to find information?
Speaker 1:Flow House F-L-O-W-H-A-U-S dot U -S. So flowhouseus is the website, Download the Flow House app and you can see our schedule. So we have guided flows, non-guided flows at Flow House, like a stretch class, meditation class, or it's just open for you to go and do your own thing. So, website or the app, and then follow us on social, which is just at Flow House. That's it, man. Come try out Flow. It is insane, it's amazing, it's special. I've already talked about it enough, but come try a Flow and let us know when you're coming. It's 18 bucks for your first. If you've never been before, it's 18 bucks for your first session. Hour long journey. It's sweet. But we should definitely do a Small Lake City meetup at Flow House. Let's do it. That'd be sick. Get the people there. That'd be so fun. We do all those, all the time too.
Speaker 2:They're great Sick. This has been great. It's been. I always like there's yet to be an episode where I sit down like, okay, here's what I can expect, and it's met that expectation. It's always been a good way to connect with people. So thanks for coming on. I'm
