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Small Lake City
Small Talk, Big City
Join host Erik Nilsson as he interviews the entrepreneurs, creators, and builders making Salt Lake City the best place it can be. Covering topics such as business, politics, art, food, and more you will get to know the amazing people behind the scenes investing their time and money to improve the place we call home.
Follow along for more!
Small Lake City
S1, E37: The Frankie and Jess Podcast
Discover the impact of family dynamics and the healing power of therapy through our emotional exploration of estranged fatherhood and personal growth. Hear about the difficulties of connecting with others and how these challenging experiences have shaped our host's life. We touch on the importance of tracing roots and finding one's place in the world, with surprising family connections dating back to the early 1900s in Utah.
Transitioning from traditional radio to podcasting wasn't just a career move – it was a life-changing decision. Frankie and Jess open up about the pressures of the radio industry and the liberation they found in podcasting. They discuss the challenges they faced, the relationships they built, and the joy of creating something authentic and meaningful. Join us for an inspiring episode filled with resilience, humor, and real talk about the pursuit of happiness and fulfillment.
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What is up everybody?
Speaker 2:and welcome back to another episode of the Small Lake City Podcast. I'm your host, eric Nilsen, back this week with episode 37, with two people whose voices might sound very familiar to you, whether you listen to their old talk show on the radio or currently listen to their podcast that they've started since then. Their names are Frankie and Jess. They used to have a radio talk show in the morning for about 20 years that they did together, but have recently started their own podcast, and you will find out why. But such great people Neither of them are from here, but found their way here and have since called it home and don't want another place to be. So, yeah, great perspective on the area, fun to hear how they got into being on the radio and to Salt Lake and what keeps them here. Just great conversations, great vulnerable people with great platforms and values, and you are going to love our combo together, enjoy.
Speaker 2:And then I had Stuart on the podcast because he is, I mean, just has this like cycling community. He's grown super well. Then he's like oh, you need to have Adam Barker on his stories. Great. And then sat down and recorded with Adam and that was so fun. He's such a good guy. He's a good guy.
Speaker 1:He's been listening for years and it's kind of cool that he's, you know, doing this whole with his, his new razor, his whole's. Such a talented photographer. Yeah and just yeah, you know Adam, so he's the one that's the photographer. Adam Barker Photography. Oh yeah, we talked about him and talked to him on the show over the years and yeah, he's just got a great story.
Speaker 2:And he could have done that forever. Like he could have done so well and like even talking to him about it and inspiring, started to do it and like I think that's something that's kind of getting lost in today's world, I think it got lost and now it's starting to finally get found in this aspect of like.
Speaker 2:there's so many people who've just gone their entire life of like oh cool, I'll do everything. Everybody says I'm going to, it's probably going to work out. I trust these people, but they kind of get honestly, like around my age, early 30s like wait a minute, I don't like any of this. I don't know what makes me happy. You change.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you should save all this for the show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, we really should, Because I mean this is good stuff. Yeah, this is the kind of stuff we talk about on our show.
Speaker 2:Oh this is good shit. Yeah, I'm excited because you two are so fun. If I could summarize it to two words, because, again, it's like hard to have two people that like vibe so well, have so much history and have it last that long. Like if you guys were a band, you guys would have probably split up years ago and had your own solo tours and solo careers. But it's so fun to see like a the banter that you guys have, which is based on so much history, but also have like such a fun and inviting and just like a comfortable personality.
Speaker 2:Because I like usually, if I'm ever introduced to or going to record with someone, I'll always like throw it out to a couple people and test it. I'll be like oh, like, what do you think about? Like for Adam, for example, I was like go to my sister. I'm like, hey, like what do you know? Adam know frankie, just like. Yeah, I used to listen to frankie just all the time. I started listening to their podcast. It's so great, they're the best. I'm like all right, cool. So after like two or three of those, I'm like all right, that's awesome, we're in. We love hearing that, thank you. There's only been one that I've had to kind of pull the plug on, but that's because it was like two hours before we were supposed to record. Uh-oh, and I especially someone I don't know I'll usually just, I mean, at least do a Google search and background stuff and at least have something to talk about. And then it turns out he was arrested like a year prior for stealing catalytic converters from cars.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, can you tell us who it is, so we don't have this person on? They've been a good show, yeah right. That's pretty interesting Was he somebody that's high profile at you. No, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:He's someone I wanted to have because he opened up this place and it was someone who Corinne Benoit, who used to be. Actually now she got a new job the community manager for Yelp and so I was like, hey, if you have anybody who's a cool story, I think it'd be great, pass them my way. And so she's giving me a couple and they've been really good, and she gives me this guy.
Speaker 3:I can't think of his name it's. I mean, that's okay. He needed money to start up the.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's not free dude and we just stay away from the guy who's like we're inviting guests over to my house. Yeah, you guys need help with parking. No, we take the Uber. Actually, he took a car. He's like I'll just I'll steal a car. We don't need it. Oh my gosh Like I got you.
Speaker 3:Just don't ask questions.
Speaker 2:But then I, so I get this and she was nice. She's like, oh, he's like a Bosnian refugee and like everybody knows who's been here, like we have a very large refugee population, especially Bosnian refugee population, and I like saw that in, like when I went to high school I was like there's like interesting, like population was like random quote, random country. And then, as I learned, like, oh, it all makes sense. So I was like, oh, it'd be nice to kind of highlight that. And then all of a sudden I'm texting him two hours before. I'm like, hey, man, I got to cancel. The whole point of the podcast is people who are supporting and growing communities in Salt Lake and making the city a better place. And it's hard for me to think of you making the city a better place if you're stealing people's cash, whatever.
Speaker 1:Haven't you guys seen Fast and Furious? Gosh, you did okay. Well, I looked in the article. I was like, hey man, I can't do this yeah.
Speaker 2:What did he say he's like oh, it's not what it sounds like All the charges were dropped. I'm like brother, I'm not like a judge.
Speaker 3:I'm not doing a job. All the charges were dropped. Look, you know what.
Speaker 2:It's cool to want to start from the beginning, um of kind of I mean we can probably go like left to right and I mean just kind of jump into it. But I mean, like frankie, like I mean, tell me about how you got introduced to salé. We're born here, moved here, so how did it all begin?
Speaker 1:I am from detroit, michigan, originally.
Speaker 2:I just had detroit style pizza last night, did you? Yeah, where'd you go? Uh, I went to costco um, do they?
Speaker 2:have detroit style pizza, yeah. So, because this might sound very um, don't think negatively about my this comment, but I realized that the inflation of grocery store frozen pizzas has been like I'm paying like eight bucks for like a, like a grocery store pizza, yeah. And then so I go to costco and there's these two of these really good Detroit style pizzas for like 12. I was like you know what, let's see, and I made it last night. I was like all right, I'm in, are they good?
Speaker 1:Yeah, costco's good pizza man. That's good to know. It's so good Good to know. So, yeah, from Detroit, michigan, for the morning show that we both worked on and that was up until last year when we both got fired, jess and I. So when I moved here October of 97, for this job, I had moved around. So from Detroit, kind of getting the radio career going, I went from let's see, detroit to Fort Myers, florida, fort Myers, florida, to Jacksonville, florida, jacksonville, florida to DC, dc to Charlotte, north Carolina, back to Fort Myers, and then made the move, while we were waiting for this thing to pan out here, to Salt Lake City in 97. As soon as I moved here in October of 97, I fell in love with it. I said out loud, like two weeks into the move I don't want to move anywhere else, this is where I'm going to retire. Well, that didn't happen. We got fired but we don't have to retire.
Speaker 3:We love what we do now.
Speaker 1:Exactly. But this is where I was like I'm going to make this my home and I fell in love with it and it was a conscious decision. After we got let go from our radio gig, jess and I were like we don't want to go. We could have easily taken our show out of Utah. We had question like, do you want to go somewhere else? And it's like no, we don't. We want to make this is our home.
Speaker 2:And it's so nice to have that perspective Because, again, like you bounce around so many places and a lot of places that people I mean cities that are larger than here, have bigger populations than here but at the end of the day, it's like this that didn't feel right and being here for so short, you're like yep, sign, seal, deliver, we're done. I'm, in long term, like I'm good, and it's so funny how many of those stories happen like I?
Speaker 2:I mean, I've talked to so many people. It's like I remember, like my early 20s, like before, that I had this hypothesis that everybody I ran into I mean especially like I don't know why ski lifts come to mind, but like I would just assume everyone's from here. But then come back from my mission and I'm just the chattiest Kathy in the whole world. I'm talking to every single person on the ski. I'm like, wait a minute, no one is from here. And then I'd hear these stories like oh, I came here for a wedding and then I never left, yeah, or came here to ski.
Speaker 1:She comes yeah and never left yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's so funny how it's like just, I mean obviously everything's grown like staying and people are still coming and people are leaving Michigan even more. But I mean we'll take them as long as they're the good ones.
Speaker 1:Dude and I lived in enough cities and they were all great cities in their own right, but when I moved here, I had enough comparison to go. This is like a slice of heaven, totally. You know, and I, some people will come at it, and I had preconceived notions, like everybody else, like you, I didn't. I'm like utah, like okay, I'll look at it, because I had an offer to go to host a show in salt lake city with this company and then they had an opening in cincinnati, ohio, and I'm like, well, that's kind of a smaller version of detroit five hours away. No thanks, I've been there, done that. Uh, so I want to check out this salt lake city thing and just fell in love with it and had enough to compare to other cities where I'm just like, yeah, this is a place that I want to stay.
Speaker 2:So what made you want to be I mean, a radio talk host? I feel like that's such a specific thing to want from the gate and pursue what led you to that.
Speaker 1:So we've talked about this over the years, but I figured it out in my 30s. I'm 53, so I'm a slow learner, but in my 30s I realized that it was my dad. My dad loved the medium of radio and I remember, and he passed away in 2016. He was born in 1937. So he grew up in the 40s and listened to old-time radio. So I remember being a kid right around our boy's age. So my son Axel is seven. It was about six or seven that my dad sat me down and he had this collection of old-time radio shows on record and we sat down and that kind of turned turned out to be our thing like at from from that moment, six or seven, all the way until I moved out, we would listen to these old-time radio shows. But by the time I was 14, 15, I knew I wanted to go into radio and we had a broadcasting school in the Detroit area.
Speaker 2:Oh cool.
Speaker 1:That was kind of known in the.
Speaker 2:Midwest, you mean Radio City right.
Speaker 1:No, that's yeah.
Speaker 2:Motor City. There we go. I got there. No, we didn't.
Speaker 1:It's close yeah that's okay, and I don't know anything about cars, so I'm a sad excuse. Coming out of Detroit, you know, I fell in love with radio. I didn't even realize that my dad had planted that seed when I was a little kid and then I figured it out in my 30s Like holy crap. This is why I'm doing. What I'm doing is because of my father, yeah, so it's kind of that's, kind of the that's. I guess the love that was the spark that was ignited, that I had no idea that my dad didn't know what he was doing. He was just, you know, introducing me what he had as an experience and wanted to see and just kind of pass it on to his kid.
Speaker 2:And I it's funny because I've had similar realizations, because, like even the journey of just me starting the podcast there's been because, like it was about this, like I mean itch, I was needed to scratch. I didn't know what it was but just kept kind of kicking the ball down the field and see where it got me. And it really wasn't until I started recording that like I would have these moments like yep, this is it, this is what I like to do, and it honestly reminds me a lot of my dad and I don't. He passed away in December but never had a really good relationship with him.
Speaker 2:I mean, I probably didn't see him in person like for six years before he passed away, but he was always a very charismatic person. He would always talk to the person in front of inline. He'd always just be able to strike up a conversation with people and want to get to know people. And so it really wasn't until I started this when I realized like, oh, I do love sitting down with people, I do love getting to know people, I do love having real conversations. I don't just want to sit and talk about the last TV show you watched and the weather and like all those stupid things, but I really want to understand what makes people tick, what makes people show up in their life the way that they want to, and what makes them happy.
Speaker 3:Do you ever talk about your dad on the podcast? Have you ever kind of delved into the estranged relationship? Because when you're a host you're usually asking the question, so like, are you comfortable talking about?
Speaker 2:it. Yeah, I mean for me and my dad it was always an interesting one because I mean, when they got married my dad told my mom he's going to do the whole Mormon thing. Show up and do that. They get married. Absolutely not, and so it was always. Dad worked a lot. He would always be up at six. He'd probably come home at like 10.
Speaker 1:Mom would always be there and just so was it bait and switch you mean?
Speaker 2:so he said yeah, okay I think like he promises and so and so. Another thing about how I'm similar with my dad is like so we both have this ability to gain rapport with people, gain trust. Um, the difference is he would usually use it as a not great premise and I usually use it in a good way, and I think we have that example of like don't screw over people, don't do bad things and and do it that way, uh, which is like one of the reasons my dad is a great example of kind of what not to do. And then so, yada, yada, my mom had of it. They got divorced when I was about 10.
Speaker 2:And then, um, I was the, I am the youngest, and so I was about 10 then and I didn't really like, nobody told me anything, I didn't really know what was going on. But I'm like oh, my dad's gone, he wants to hang out on weekends. Yeah, let's go to happy sumo at the gateway and then go see a movie at the mega. Wasn't until like later. I was like oh, okay, there's like some things that I don't necessarily like, and like the way he treated me and others, I was like, oh, this isn't necessarily the greatest thing I want to have, and just kind of slowly like drifted apart. And then there'd always be these like freudian slips from my sisters and my mom about and be like oh, I didn't know that they're like oh, we didn't know, you didn't know that.
Speaker 2:Well, now you know that so you were like the last to know, out of the loop, and even now there's things I don't know. I'm like this doesn't change, like this does nothing for me to know or not know. I'd rather just yeah, keep on moving on and and then go from there.
Speaker 1:Dude, that breaks my heart as a father, like thinking about you know that whole I just I'm sorry, that's it's. I mean I know that, yeah, but it's it's. Yeah, that's tough, it's hard. And being the baby, you were the youngest and they were like he, he's, fine, he's.
Speaker 3:you know, they probably just didn't want to let you in on too much. But let you in on zero is not good yeah.
Speaker 2:And I mean it's hard because, like I get again to your point, frankie, I've like it breaks hearts to know, but like it's also nice for if slash, when I have kids, like I have this great example of what not to do and what that feels like, and even now in my life I can see who of my friends, coworkers, family, whatever like are quote good and bad parents and kind of what that relationship looks like with kids.
Speaker 1:So that's huge, to not repeat a cycle, Cause that's we always talk about that sort of thing. People have their stuff and they come from whatever right Family stuff, but to recognize that and and like where you're saying to break that cycle.
Speaker 2:That's huge and that's also like there's the blessing and the curse part of it because, like, the blessing part of it is like there was so much trauma, everything attached to it, that I had to grow up very quickly, and like there's other dynamics in my life that I did have to grow up very quickly, so it made me a very introspective person. I understood a lot of my emotions. I understood that's good a lot of things where now I it's almost like it's hard for me to connect with a lot of my emotions. I understood that's good a lot of things where now I it's almost like it's hard for me to connect with a lot of people because, like I operate up here and if people are down here it's really hard for us to like get each other. Yeah, but then again, like the people up here I found are some of my favorite people in the world, so if I can find them, it's like best friends right away, um, but so then yeah, so I go.
Speaker 2:Um, he got. So see, he got married once, got divorced, divorced, then married. My mom got divorced, then married his third wife and then got divorced and I was like in my early twenties I got married again and that's who he's married to and passed away. But, like his last one I don't know if I'll put this in there, but he like texted me the day before. He's like hey, I'm getting married tomorrow, you want to come? And I was like I'm not going to respond to this was diagnosed with uh alzheimer's in about 2015 2016, and so the joke about it is it's like it's nice to have a uh, uh apparently of a bad relationship, have memory issues, because then they're not trying to reach out too much. Yeah, um, but then that's uh eventually, kind of what took him back in december so we're huge proponents of therapy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh you, I just had a curious. Do you partake?
Speaker 2:Big fan Heavy user.
Speaker 1:No, you're not, Because we are as well.
Speaker 2:Oh, and that's been like my homegirl Haley. We've we've gone through a lot in the past like year and a half, but yeah, no big fan of therapy. And it was funny too because, like my mom is a big believer in therapy and like, growing up I probably had like three or four therapists but like I didn't want to go oh yeah so I remember there's one time I was sitting in this room with this like I mean, um, youth therapist I don't know what the term would be, but we're sitting there.
Speaker 2:He's like well, you know, it's nice to meet you, have you here. Your mom kind of told me some things and I'm like I don't want to talk to you. He's like okay, like we can sit here in silence the whole time. I'm like cool, yeah. So I literally just sat on the couch, pretty much just like staring at him for an hour, and he's like well, time's up.
Speaker 1:He's like I'm getting paid either way. So you know, and I was like all right, see ya, that's messed up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, big fan of therapy, and especially like I also. So my introspectiveness mixed with my like job of being like a data analyst and job of being like a data analyst, and then my adhd makes me realize like I'd recognize patterns and behavior in people very well, wow, and so then I'll see people I'm like and I wouldn't do it to everybody. It'd only be like close friends, be like hey, your life would be a little bit better if you just went to therapy, just a little nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're the same way. That's good we're like what do you think about therapy?
Speaker 3:yeah, do you need a?
Speaker 1:number. What are your thoughts? Here's sandra's card.
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm the biggest like, especially because I'm dating now and it's funny just to be like, I'll like, throw like a soft, I'll be like, so yeah so I was at therapy last time.
Speaker 1:What do you feel about that? Does it frighten you? Because if it frightens you, we can't.
Speaker 2:We can't do a second date there's there's been a couple that are like oh yeah, you know, it's not really for me.
Speaker 3:I'm like not, not now, but you will. Yeah, we all said that everybody.
Speaker 1:Oh, I didn't have any trauma from my youth oh, yeah, yeah, okay, sure, check please, yeah, check please.
Speaker 2:I'll get this yeah so, yeah, that was uh. Yeah, my family dynamic was always interesting growing up but then also made me and my sisters super close and like maybe even close my mom like now we have like an amazing relationship and we kind of got to this point. We're like, hey, we can either keep having this kind of surface relationship that we're used to in our families or we can actually start to show up and like be real, be real, have adult conversations, know what's going on, share the good, the bad, the ugly, and really be there for each other. Especially when you have this trans like I can't imagine this transition for parents where you go from again like parents, teacher, like confidant, and then all of a sudden you're like now we have to be friends, I can't parent you anymore, I and really have to show up. And then my mom's actually been really, really good about that, and I'm really proud of how much she's shown up for me.
Speaker 1:Recently, after I was like, hey, I need more, she's like all right, that's cool, that's cool and that's what makes deep connections, man, is that surface BS and it doesn't have to be with everyone. Yeah, no, yeah On a real like a genuine, like a genuine relationship with somebody. Totally it has to be yeah.
Speaker 2:And like that's like my sister I've talked about a ton on the podcast, like she's my best friend, like if I ever have anything going on, I'm like it's been phenomenal to have that, because I was actually talking about someone earlier today about how I'd always get together with my high school friends and we'd always talk about high school, talk about this.
Speaker 2:I'm like that was like the worst time of my life. I didn't like this and like I'm such a different person. Why can't we just move on? But then, at the end of the day, I was thinking about this, like probably like a year or so ago, I was like no, like anybody I meet now, the only experience that they will have for me is from this moment onward, everything else is a story. They have to believe it. They have to take it at face value. They really don't understand all the context and nuance, but those people do, and it's it. It gets harder and harder to find those people that do understand, like so much of yourself in history and especially see how you grow and show up, and so so it's been fun to have a lot of these like relationships start to stop again. That's cool.
Speaker 2:That's cool yeah, thanks for answering yeah, because I didn't know if you were down to go oh well, that's the best part about a podcast too. It's like, let's say, I'm editing, I'm like we don't hear any of this right it's like it's rinky jess.
Speaker 3:Thanks for listening.
Speaker 1:We're not even recording right now I knew it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is weird I just get a text from jess. Damn it, Eric. I told you.
Speaker 1:Be vulnerable. The podcast was only six minutes long. It was so quick.
Speaker 2:It was a commercial.
Speaker 1:Seriously.
Speaker 2:Oh man. So I mean just to kind of like wrap up your journey to get to Salt Lake. I mean, what was it in those first couple of weeks that really drove it?
Speaker 1:home, just the people, obviously the aesthetics, yeah, it just felt like and it's weird and I've talked about this before, but I just had this weird instant connection. And then it comes out and I've known this over the years. So just a long story short. My grandpa, who came over from Italy in the early 1900s with his dad, his cousin, his uncle, they ended up going and settling in Utah. My grandpa and his dad settled in Michigan and I had heard over the years my mom would be like you know, visiting relatives in Helper, utah, and I'm like I don't know where Utah is, I don't know who these people are. And then when I move out here, my mom's, like you got to go see the Andrinis in Helper and introduce yourself. I'm like Ma, and this is before Ancestry and all that. I'm like I have no idea who you're talking about. I didn't know Grandpa. He died before I was born. I'm like I'm not. So they come to visit, we go and literally I don't know if you know where the Shell Station is, if you're heading down to Moab on Highway 6, before the bridge that goes by the white pages.
Speaker 1:Looks at Andrini, calls Melissa. Andrini starts saying hi, my name is Mary, gives her maiden name Michonne. She knew exactly this 25-year-old cousin of mine knew our ancestry. She was like I know exactly who you are. Later that night we're having dinner with my grandpa's cousin's widow and then this is right before she passed away A big Italian dinner. We made this connection. I think that's truly how I felt right at home when I moved here, like I had relatives that moved here in the early 1900s. They settled in Carbon County, of all places but I have this weird. It's weird Like I feel connected to Michigan, but this is my home. Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's nice to have that again, like some, because it's hard to move to other places and really try to make it home and I think that's something you really do learn in your twenties is the importance of, like a community, importance of family, especially for people who start to build a family, because it's really hard to do alone. And then you start to realize how important those family relationships are, and obviously it's different for people. If you have a terrible relationship with your family, then there's probably the last people you want to be by. But I mean, that was part of my realization when I moved back to Salt Lake. I'm like, oh, like it is good to be around family, it is good to have a support network, it is good to have all of this, this, this context and love and people you can go to.
Speaker 1:Cause, even when I off in Michigan, then it'd be a whole different story. Crazy. And it's not like we're tight, that's the thing too. Like they're fourth and fifth cousins, yeah, but to know that there's a history there. And then I've since moved and my dad passed away in 2016, but 2013,. I moved my mom and dad from Detroit to, you know, to here in Utah and met my wife here. I was married at the time, so my first marriage ended. We didn't have kids or anything like that, but, yeah, I met my wife Tammy. We had Axel, so it feels. It just feels like home man. I don't even know how to describe it, just love it here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I feel that. And like I was even going to go golf this morning, and so I'm coming around I-80 and I like see the sun come up over Parley's and like it was perfectly projecting over Twin Peaks, I'm like, yep, this, is it Like hard to get sick of this?
Speaker 1:It's true, man, it's like living in a painting. I mean it, truly right, and I never get sick of the views, whether looking over the yokers across the valley, or we live kind of right at the base of Mount Olympus and just dude, I love it. I can't get enough of the state I'm with you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, All right, so let's switch gears and go over to Jess. So Jess, how did you? I'm like, oh great, oh great, I need more coffee.
Speaker 3:We can do that Just kidding, I didn't have, and I think because Frankie's so outdoorsy too, I mean this is like the perfect place for you. You love to hike, you love to be outside. It took me about five years to like Salt Lake. I did not have a love affair, a love story with Salt Lake.
Speaker 3:I moved here and I'm from Phoenix and my husband and I had recently gotten married and he worked here first, so I had connections. I worked at a radio network and so I was able to connect him with somebody in Salt Lake and the guy offered him a job and we were engaged and I thought, oh shoot, I had no plans of ever leaving Arizona, ever, ever, ever. I love the desert, my family, I'm very close to them, my friends. I was one of those people that still was hanging with my high school friends, college friends like those were my people. And so I thought starting out a marriage telling your new husband you can't go live your dream because I want to stay here is it's horseshit. I mean it's not okay and I thought what a shitty wife to start off a marriage like that. So he ended up coming here. We did long distance while we were engaged. He would fly home for tastings and fittings and all the things that go into a wedding.
Speaker 3:And then after our honeymoon in St Thomas, I gave three weeks notice to that network that I worked at for about four years and then moved here and my dream was always to be on the radio. I was a radio kid. I would record all my favorite songs. When I was younger, I would play radio station with my sister in my room. I loved music, commercials, just all the things. I wanted to be famous as a kid. I just wanted to be in some sort of form of entertainment, and always a goofy, funny kid. My parents would have their friends over and it was like, okay, jessica's going to put on a show.
Speaker 1:I was that kid singing and dancing and doing. Oh yeah, I've known you almost 19 years. I didn't know you were that kid. Here's $20. Show us that dance that you twirl around like you did last night. Go get the camera.
Speaker 3:But I think my parents were like, okay, we're bored of these people, come on in and entertain. So it was a lot of fun and ended up moving here and tried out on the show with Frankie and about a weekend he was like, okay, we see something, we like you. And I was like, all right, awesome. And it was a dream come true Because I graduated from Arizona State.
Speaker 3:I went to the Walter Cronkite School of Journalism and always wanted to be the person that used my college degree, because it's very rare and I just it. Like I said, I had it in my heart. It was such a love of mine radio my entire life almost and so I thought, okay, I'm not going to give up till I get on the air. And so joining the show with him just was awesome. It was awesome and I feel so grateful that I get to tell my kids and my grandkids like I did it. I did it anyway. You know it wasn't hard, it wasn't always pretty, but I set goals and I achieved them and I didn't give up. So it's really cool. It's a cool accomplishment that I'm really proud of that I don't give myself enough credit for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think anybody and I think it's becoming a less and a less thing to be able to do would be like hey, there's a goal that I had, a dream that I wanted and I did it, whether that's going on air, whether that's I mean, whatever it is like and there's such a um, a validating point of like, oh, I can do hard things, I can set a goal and I can do it, which like just kind of cascades into itself and then people see that and they get inspired, and so so I'm so glad you were able to do that, not just for yourself but for everybody that knows and loves you, to be able to like, inspire and do that.
Speaker 3:Thank you. It was hard. It was. It was five years.
Speaker 3:And as much as I loved working with Frankie and what we were doing, you know, because the job was my life and I loved it, but there was something missing. I was missing friends, I was missing family. And as soon as we got connected to, you know, my Mary Kay girls because I've done Mary Kay for over 12 years and then got connected to our community church, then the pieces of the puzzle started to fit and then I was like, okay, this is. And I did. I tried out for jobs in Phoenix, I tried to actively keep going home because I was just missing something and then it finally all came about when it was supposed to.
Speaker 3:It's always that timing thing, right, and I'm sure it was so frustrating because I know my family wanted me to move home and they were missing me and I was missing them, God was very clear this is my home and we've been here for almost 20 years and I love it. I love, like Frankie was saying, how beautiful it is here, the people here, the four seasons. I'm only an hour 20 from Phoenix, with my friends and family, I have the best of everything. So it's just, it's really it's a huge blessing being here and just being in the space that we're in together. It's awesome.
Speaker 1:It was what. Four years into the gig and she's like I got to go to the dentist. I got to fly down to Phoenix to go to my dentist. I'm like get a freaking dentist here already. Just make the commitment, jess, you're getting on a flight to go get a cleaning. He was so great, it was ridiculous. I'm like get an dentist. We had Hadfield Dental Care. I'm like geez.
Speaker 3:He charged me, though he's like you got married. Today's free. Oh, you're having a baby.
Speaker 2:Today's free. He was such a good guy. You know, balance out the cost of the flight.
Speaker 1:She's like I'm flying down to.
Speaker 2:Phoenix to get my teeth cleaned and see my family. Jess, we see you're trying to put your flight towards your insurance detectable.
Speaker 3:Tell us about this. I should have.
Speaker 1:That's smart, that's funny.
Speaker 2:So what was that chemistry like when you first got started? Was it, I mean, work at first sight? Did it take some time? Did you hate each other?
Speaker 3:Oh, I was in awe of him. I was in awe of Frankie. Looked up to him, you know, like a little G-God, almost semi-worshipped him. I soaked in so much of his knowledge because he was, you know, seven years older and he'd been in other markets and I was just like, ok, I want to be more like this. And so he was monumental in my growth in the industry, for sure, and just things he had learned and kind of soaking that in like mistakes I didn't want to make.
Speaker 3:He's very open and vulnerable about, you know, things he's been through and I really like that because a lot of dudes aren't. And I really found that endearing. And you know me moving to a new city, a new marriage, he was just there for me like a big brother and it was so neat to have that because I come from just me and my sister I'm the oldest of two never had a brother but he really is Like. I know God placed him in my life to be that brother that I always wanted and longed for and he's such a good protector and, yeah, just in love with the guy, not like that, but just as family that I always wanted and it was such a gift in my life, such a gift, Sorry, no, no, I didn't.
Speaker 1:I knew some of that. I didn't know all of that. I'm starting to find it like you think you know the person after almost 20 years. No, that's, I fell in love with. It took about a week of her when she tried out and I remember she was kind of really nervous. But you could see like this, this talent, this raw talent, and I just remember the nerves were kind of getting the best of her.
Speaker 1:Yeah think about, like you're talking to me, just because it's it's a messed up thing, as you know, like I'm sure, when you started the podcast, maybe you kind of get in your head a little bit and you start not really thinking about what you're saying, or maybe you're thinking about too much, overthinking stuff.
Speaker 1:So I would have these conversations with her and then all of a sudden, it was probably a week and a half into her on the show that it just it clicked and it was this like there, there it is, and it was this genuine I don't even know how to describe it other than I've and I felt this instant chemistry with her and I felt this and I've said this to you before like I I'd never had anybody that I worked with on that show, uh, that I felt like was my right hand person. You know what I mean, because I mean it's like you're doing this, it's a collaboration, right, you're, you're and it just felt like this is the person that I want to, because we'd had other women on the show over the years and it just didn't, for whatever reason, it didn't work out. And that's another thing, man, like you know, you've got bosses, people in suits, and especially in the entertainment industry. They're like here we're going to parry up with this person.
Speaker 3:We're going to parry up with this person. It's an arranged marriage and it can be super duper, awkward man and it's like if there's not chemistry.
Speaker 1:You can't force chemistry on people and they don't get that. They're like well, this person has these credentials and it's like you don't, and they're you can put on paper. No, it's not. And it connected. We just had this chemistry and that kind of speaks to where we are now and just you know, fast forwarding all these years of working together, almost 18 years together on the show, and then we get, you know, let go from the radio station and we were like you know, we know what we have is special.
Speaker 1:I mean, I mean this is a rare relationship. I mean we love each other. I mean, off the air we've got this relationship that you know we're like brother and sister. So that in itself is rare. And then professionally, this chemistry that we have, that's rare. So we're like we have something that we're blessed to have. We need to hold on to it. So we you know that. So it's like we didn't want to go anywhere else, we didn't want to do anything else and we opted not to go back into radio and we figured we'd take a chance on ourselves with this podcast thing because we didn't want to be in the same position where we kind of lost control of the radio show. We're like why don't we do this is something that we talked about for years doing.
Speaker 1:Now it's kind of forced on us, like this is the time to do it yeah but again, it's, it's this we we know what we have is a rare chemistry and we need to hold on to it I mean, like the rolling stones man, we're not going anywhere performing.
Speaker 3:They haven't broken up yet, they don't have a yoko, ono yeah yeah still going. Somebody called me that back in the day. Somebody in radio was like you're yoko, ono.
Speaker 1:I'm like yeah, no, you're the yoko get the hell out of here, and that's the stuff they don't know like behind the scenes. You have no idea what you're talking about. That business is dude entertainment is.
Speaker 3:It is toxic. It is. It's whether it's artists or the record labels, radio, tv I mean, most industries are toxic because they're made up of people and people are sinners. Right, we get this. But, man, like he's saying, they're pairing you up and they're trying to force something to happen and it just can be so brutal and taxing. And then you have to go on the air and you have to entertain and be in a good mood and it's just, it's so weird, you have to break yourself into small pieces just to do what you're doing, while you're like dying on the inside because of, like he's saying, all the suits and all of the requirements and the pressure and the stress. It just it sucked, it wasn't fun anymore.
Speaker 1:No, it was a lot of compartmentalizing, that's for sure, just to kind of survive.
Speaker 2:I mean especially when you have people who I mean again, like executive positions, corporate, whatever it might be, and it's like so dehumanized me, like well, you're just this asset that we have to try and create this perfect formula we own you towards all of these metrics that we track. The metrics are bullshit, yeah yeah, real numbers.
Speaker 3:if you want to know our numbers, they're real.
Speaker 1:You know, with a podcast they're dialed in man the metrics. Why can't radio and we love the medium of radio, we just opted not to go back into it but why can't radio figure it out? And this is something that we've been very vocal with as we kind of launched our podcast. It is bullshit. They manipulate these ratings and they care about manipulating them more than the bigger problem.
Speaker 3:Because people are getting rich off of the manipulation. We know this, there's bad people and there's a monopoly with it.
Speaker 1:Ridiculous.
Speaker 2:And they'll be like go do this, go do that, and then like to the point, especially where they're like, again making these decisions, we're like all right, you guys are done Like all this history, all of this, out the door and we can talk as much about it or not about it. That didn't bode well for them.
Speaker 3:Oh, I admit, yeah, it didn't bode well for them. It's not, yeah. And it sucks because we feel bad for the people that were our quote unquote replacements. I mean it just sucks because we had so much history there, that was our home and, like Frankie said before and it's true, it's tainted, it's just tainted. We we're still kind of reeling from that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Processing through it.
Speaker 2:And especially like to. I mean, I think it would have been insulting to each of you if you did be like, all right, cool, let's go to another radio show here, let's fine, we'll move and go somewhere else, just to find yourself in a different situation, just different faces, even though it's the same situation. But instead you're like, hey, we have something special, we still want to keep doing this, we still want to keep doing something together. I see that podcasts are now kind of this face of the radio future People are. I mean, it's the thing, it's what people are replacing radio with. And so to take that risk and and and jump into something new but similar but still new, I mean that's gotta be daunting. But I mean, how would that conversation get started? I mean, was it pretty quick after everything's like all the dust settled or what? It takes some time.
Speaker 3:Well, it's tough because we had contracts. We were still in, so I had like a three month out and he had a six month out, and so we had some time to kind of figure out what we wanted to do. And we did have a couple of radio groups that reached out and one we were in talks with, and we were like kind of mulling over things and talking about things every day. Every day we were on the phone Okay, what are we going to do? What are we going to do? How does this look? How's the sound? What should we ask for? Are we cool with these terms? I mean, it was agonizing trying to figure out, because this was something the rug was pulled out from underneath us. We weren't prepared and prepped for this at all.
Speaker 3:We were just like holy shit, we're in like freak, shocking and so we would talk every day and, um, you know, like frankie had said, we talked about it over the years here and there, like, oh, because we already had a podcast with our show and so it was just our show of the day and it'd be online.
Speaker 1:But that being said, and we've talked about this, it was all clunky, like we'd had somebody that would you know, people that we worked with that would do it and that didn't. Anyway, like as far as technically it was not good, I mean, it was always you know and then we would say something to our bosses like hey, there's commercials that are literally chiming in in the middle of a conversation. So this is oh well, that's corporate, that's the template that corporate has. There's nothing we could do about it. It was always that. And then we were labeled the problem children for just wanting, like the best quality audio for our listeners and anyway, so that I just wanted better yeah so it wasn't a very good.
Speaker 1:I mean, it was a basically the show in a sense, a podcast sense, but audibly it didn't sound that great.
Speaker 3:No it wasn't that great. And so we were really leaning towards going with a certain radio station group because they're just phenomenal the people, the policies, everything. And then we were. We had a real deep talk and I remember we were in my front room in the swivel chairs at my house because we're getting ready to go to my son's hockey game. And you know, my husband was like you got to talk to Frank, you got to tell him how you feel, you got to talk to Frankie and I was just like I think we should go off on our own and we talked more about it at the hockey game.
Speaker 3:And then we were at the oval in the parking lot as we were leaving and Frank's like yeah, we're doing this, we're doing this and we it was just this cool moment where we solidified that this was the next chapter and we were going to jump in all in and we were going to bank on ourselves and after that I mean it was just making the decision was so freeing in that moment. And then the steps, you know, after that. It's scary. It's scary to open your own business and do an LLC and have a partner like all of this. I mean it is scary and just getting advertisers and just all the things we had to do. But, man, it stretches your brain, it stretches your belief barrier, like it's exhilarating at the same time. It's stressful, but it's so freeing.
Speaker 1:It's such a weird place but you can hold both of those at once you know Well, freeing it's such a weird place but you can hold both of those at once. You know well, and when we were doing it we had zero. I mean the confidence had been stripped from us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah, how that all went down, so that you know that what I've been fired before and like, oh it's, it's the, it's brutal, because everything that you think that you are is just like denied, shot down. Yeah, I was confident person before and then all of a sudden you're like, just it's like that fog mixed with like this, like identity crisis.
Speaker 3:It's like, was I not that good?
Speaker 2:The imposter syndrome comes in, just keeps running on loose time and time again.
Speaker 1:Well, and we had been in this really bad place for about two years, a year and a half, two years with consultants that were coming in. You know they're making these changes. They're basically telling us that, in a sense, that we don't know what we're doing. The problem is you guys, you know that kind of when you're a vet you're a pro and you know when you've got it dialed in and there's.
Speaker 3:We were not saying we couldn't tweak things and update things. Like we're down, we get times change, but it was like it was not that.
Speaker 1:It was ridiculous.
Speaker 1:You know what you know and know it, and I was like, well, actually, let's do this. You're like I've been doing this for way too long for you to walk in in two weeks and tell me oh sure, and these are people that had no zero experience doing what we did, yeah, and then they didn't even know us. That was another thing. And then there's a guy that's like this he's this big talent guy within the company. I liked him, he's a nice guy, but I mean the guy needs to. It's like you're a little out of touch, dude, and he comes in and he's calling her a different name yeah he's like frankie and jesse and I'm like unbelievable.
Speaker 1:And then he listened. I kid you, not the first meeting that we had with this dude. He was taking notes with another show. He came into town first time that he had come in and first time we met him and he's rattling off these notes critiquing us. And it's not even our show, Like dude, this isn't even our show, yeah, and he's calling her Jessie. I'm like you have no idea who we are. And this that's how it got started, like a year and a half before we were let go Like I don't like the way this is.
Speaker 3:And it was bizarre because the one time he's in town he's like oh, this is terrible what you're doing. And I was like a month ago you said I was a rock star at this Like it was just so weird. There was no consistency.
Speaker 1:And then he brings in a consultant who has never done what we like. She admitted that she worked middays at a radio station in a smaller to medium market and that she wasn't that good on the air.
Speaker 3:I was like don't ever say that again, lady.
Speaker 1:Add that to me. And why would you say that when you know that we're questioning your guys' credibility? But yeah, she was a. It was bizarre. She was like a life coach or something that was her thing.
Speaker 3:It's like what are you Bizarre Nice girl. She's a lovely lady, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Whatever, I don't, you know I don't miss those guys. But that, going back to the were excited but we were terrified.
Speaker 3:I mean, we were weak man. It's almost like you have a surgery and you're trying to get back to real life and you're just like my body's not working. I'm tired, I can't eat, I wet myself.
Speaker 2:Like what is going on. I mean especially to go to that point where, again, I mean if you're working on the radio, I mean there's so much help, there's so many other people to do things I mean all you have to do is I mean this is very ignorant of me to say but like, show up, crush the show and go from there when now it's like okay, are we going to edit this? How are we going to edit this? What does the episode look like? What are we going to do?
Speaker 3:How do we? How do we good and which is sometimes daunting, it's hard because we do have employees, we have a staff and we have a great group of people we work with, and so that's a whole nother level of a different kind of thing that we didn't come from before and we're learning as we go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, yeah, makes mistakes that we're kind of trying to work through right now, first year stuff, yeah, but all about those. That being said, it's all good. Yeah, true, and we talk about stress. So the toxic stress that we had, right, and then stress that we have now. We'll take this stress over the toxic stress that can kill you.
Speaker 2:That stuff was killing us. I mean, especially when you're in a situation where you feel out of control and hopeless because there's so many people making decisions for you and that's toxic stress. But then you have this stress of like I've never done this before. I need to learn so many new things.
Speaker 2:We got to feed our kids, yeah, but then you like start to be like oh hey, this is actually going well, hey, like things are working out, yeah, like again, and it's like kind of like to the point. We're talking about Jess, about you.
Speaker 1:I mean, having these dreams haven't come true, yeah. And then all of a sudden it starts snowballing and next thing you're like driving by the old place. You're like that's great, I have, I have, I can't. I haven't driven by it, but like even driving by on I-215 right there, like and you see it off in the distance. It gives me a little anxiety. Sure, it sucks.
Speaker 3:It sucks, because it was like I said, it was our home and it got burnt to the ground and so it's in ruins. You know in our minds and and we'll be okay one day and we're, we're better off now, like we get regular sleep. We didn't realize humans are supposed to sleep seven to eight hours a night. Who knew? Well, that's nice Sleep, what's?
Speaker 1:for dinner.
Speaker 3:Like our blood work is better, our health is better, our parents, parents and our kids, like our families, our spouses everybody loves us more. They're like gosh. You guys are happy now, like we're more pleasant to be around because we're not so stressed and triggered. And it was just we were. It was ugly man, it was ugly.
Speaker 1:Well, and we knew it was ugly, but we didn't know how ugly it was until you know you're. The longer you're away from it, it's like being in a toxic relationship, like a romantic relationship. It's a relationship right and it's toxic. The longer we're away from it, that dust settles. You're like, wow, it was effed up. I mean, you really start to see it and we didn't know how bad we were in it until you're away from it so true, when the dust settles.
Speaker 2:And it's like one thing to notice it within yourself when all of the people in your life are like, hey, you're doing a lot back, and your doctor's like, what are you doing different?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Everything is better.
Speaker 1:And you're not a dick. Yeah, that's crazy. Look at, you're less dickish and I'm like thank you, is that going in my chart? I know right, thank you, that's funny, I love that. Yeah, goal in life.
Speaker 2:You Dicker, less dickish, less dickish. Listen to Frankie and Best Podcast. That was great. So, for people who haven't listened to the radio show or the podcast, give me the elevator speech on what you guys are hoping to accomplish and a little bit of a summary of it.
Speaker 3:In what way? There's so many ways I can go with this Dealer's choice. Dealer's choice oh, I like you. You're quick, see, he's good at this.
Speaker 1:You are.
Speaker 3:You have a gift. We just have to like, tell you you have a gift. You do. You want to get to know people. You ask the questions. You are such a quick thinker Like.
Speaker 2:You go within Like you've got it, dude, You've got it? Yeah me, it's just like oh yeah, let's just talk. Yeah, I love it, but you're good.
Speaker 3:You're good. You have to be a good listener. You can't just be a talker. If you're a podcaster, if you're a radio TV person, stop just talking at people. You have to listen and digest it before you respond. That goes for anybody.
Speaker 1:It's true, your relationship right, your marriage, your relationship, just because I've been learning that as I go on like to be a better listener. Yeah, you know, and that's just with everything that makes you a better person.
Speaker 3:Yeah, very true, without a doubt. We always say God gave us two ears, one mouth. Shut your mouth, listen with your two ears, and then you can respond. But you're really good dude, you have a gift and we've been interviewed, you know, over the years by though. Just wanted to point that out, okay. So what was the question again?
Speaker 1:Elevator pitch on what we're doing and where we're going with it.
Speaker 3:There we go, okay, so what we're doing is what we're almost month five, no, five and a half months.
Speaker 1:So we launched January 2nd. Yeah, you know, it's kind of like we know. Right now we're just kind of enjoying the freedom and not being stifled, so it's almost like we're finding ourselves again, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Which I do love about it, because I don't like really structured podcasts.
Speaker 2:I mean, to your point, jess, there's people that podcast where it's like here's my 20 questions I'm going to answer and no matter what you say to me, I'm going to go down to question three, four, five, six.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's like an SNL skit, exactly Like Chris farley or something, but I do love when it's just like open conversation, great banter between people, like fun topics and and I think that's something that you both do very well of, because again you have so much years of context and now you have all of this freedom to kind of like go through, like this quote murkiness of of this new arena you find yourselves in. But it is so fun and and intoxicating because I do think it does take a lot of the good things that you had from the radio show, but then again you guys are much happier. You have this control, you don't have to be stressed, you're sleeping and I think that that shows through so much and it's fun to just kind of see how this new era of you guys is panning out so well and it's been fun to listen to and watch.
Speaker 3:Oh, thank you. Yeah, we're loving it. We think, you know the first year. We just want to keep doing what we're doing and we have some really good guests lined up. We've had some great guests on the show. We love when we just do our, you know, chilling, hanging out shows and connecting with the listeners and each other.
Speaker 1:Well and we hear that and we've heard it over the years say, oh, it's weird. We feel like we know you and you know it's. It's even weirder when we haven't met you. Right, you listen to us, we don't with.
Speaker 1:We're meeting you for the first time and it's like we feel a connection with yeah so it's like we have it's, it's this weird symbiotic relationship that we just like connecting, whether it's with ourselves, with guests, and we're just enjoying the process at the moment of kind of rediscovering ourselves and where this is going. And it is. It's intoxicating man, like when we have some good shows and we just know that it's slowly growing and we're just finding out where it's going to take us, instead of like having something mapped out where it's almost like you know, we're just, we don't want to have any kind of constraints, we just want to see where it takes us and then maybe go this way, maybe go that way you know, and that's like one thing and I'm sure you guys get this question too but like anybody who talks about the podcast, like, so what's the goal?
Speaker 3:What are you doing?
Speaker 2:Oh, you got to have goals and dreams, I'm sure Totally yeah, it's not like to do this, I have to go sell this and go do that. I'm like still to your point, like still figuring it out, still still stamping all of it and learning as you go.
Speaker 1:The goal is to be happy with the process of doing what we're doing, and that's where I didn't realize that I was as unhappy doing what we were doing, especially in the last couple of years. And I'm really happy right now, and I'm happy with what we're doing and where it's going, and who knows where it's going.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm happy with what we're doing and where it's going and who knows where it's going, and it's been fabulous. We're so grateful. I mean, like we keep bringing up the you know connection and community and we wouldn't be where we're at if it weren't for our listeners it wouldn't be you know, and them passing on the word you know and spreading the word about the new show and our advertisers. I mean, thank God, they keep the lights on at our homes and food on the table for our kids and they have been, you know, friends of ours over the years and they were upset about the way things went down and so they have showed up for us big and gotten our backs and know that we are who we are and we can produce for them and flourish for them and for ourselves. And what a good partnership that is. So it's just been so many blessings along the way.
Speaker 3:You know when you're on the right path, god just keeps opening the doors. They're not closed. You know, when I was trying to go back to Phoenix all those years I want to do Phoenix radio, be with my friends and family. No, that's not where I belong, and so it's neat when the doors keep opening. You know you're on the right path and eventually we've talked own shows.
Speaker 3:We do consulting on the side when people are starting out a show and they want pointers, because this isn't natural to most people. It's just not a natural medium and people need coaching. We have a merch store on our website, which is so cool. We have our own merch, I'm like we have tumblers and sweatshirts. It's so exciting to just build our brand little by little and it's neat that he and I are at the helm of everything and we don't have everybody controlling us anymore. We have the power and we know what we're doing and we're confident in that, and so it's so inspiring and freeing and every day we wake up and we're like sweet, we get to live our dream for real this time. It was always a dream to be in radio, on the radio, but this is even better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's all about relationships. And it's weird because we've talked about this on our show. It's bizarre and just it boggles the mind with who we worked with and I think a lot of companies, but especially you know, it's a radio station and they just didn't get like relationships. They didn't get relationships with their own employees station and they just didn't get like relationships. They didn't get relationships with their own employees. They didn't get it with our sponsors. They don't get it with our listeners. It's all about and that's life, man, it's building relationships, cultivating relationships, real relationships.
Speaker 3:Exactly, not just genuine, to get something from it. Exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's the different and that's the stuff that they were. It's all surfacy going back to like our conversation. You know, being on that surface level, yeah, it's nice to just you know this is something that we're good at, we're, we're, we love people.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we love cultivating and building relationships and that's kind of what we're in.
Speaker 2:And that's one thing I've liked about like following. I mean here upstairs is like if someone's like, oh, frankie and jess, like I listen, you're like bring it in, like no, give me a hug, like let's like you, I can tell there is that appreciation and that and that like loyalty and love, because, again, like a podcast without its followers and listeners is just a guy in a room talking to himself yeah, true, and and so I do love and I can feel that and and and see that, because I remember the first time someone came up to me it was like hey, like you're the guy from the small city podcast. I was like I don't know what to do about that. Oh, that's great, like hi, like, yeah, I'll take a picture. He's like, yeah, I'm like all right, there we go.
Speaker 2:And it's like what happened? I'm like I don't know, I'm still processing it, but let's just keep going. And then will come up to me like oh yeah, that's crazy how that happened in your life. I'm like we've been like, excuse me, they're like, oh, you talked about it on that episode.
Speaker 2:I was like that's right, people listen to things and I tell people things about my life and that comes together that way, and so I'm like, oh yeah, you know a lot of details, but I share it because I want to share it, I come up to and not be like, oh, I don't know if I want to go talk to him, I'm not sure if this is going to be right.
Speaker 3:Well, and that's the thing we've always talked about too you can't get, you can't believe your own hype and the people that get, quote unquote, famous right, Whether it's a podcast, a reality show, when you act like a diva or a dick, like it's over, nobody can relate to you. You think you're not genuine anymore. That connection is lost, and so always stay humble. What is it?
Speaker 3:Sit down, be humble, it's a good song If you're getting a little fat head, play that on loop in your car and we worked with a lot of egos man.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot, and there's just magic in that business in general, there's just a lot of egos, and that's the one thing that I didn't like, even when we were loving it. That was one thing that I hated about. It is most of the I shouldn't. A lot of the people that did what we did like on air were egos oh yeah, we're egos and that's all across the country and it's just, it's like all you and no, it's like.
Speaker 1:The way we would look at is like, hey, man, we just have, we're lucky that we have and fortunate that we have jobs that we love. Right, yeah, and what we get to do? True, that's, that's the only difference. But then you get people, people that do it and think that they're better than everybody and that you know that probably with any industry, but you know.
Speaker 2:And I mean like it's so interesting to you Cause like I've had I mean I wouldn't say I've had anybody like super famous on the podcast, but people who I mean I've brought in or been with and been like recognized and had like conversations with and it's like it's so funny Cause, like I've gotten so jaded from that. It's like one of my like principles I live by is I don't pedestal people Like I don't like especially like I mean either professionally or personally. I'm like, oh my gosh, you're this person, like you're the greatest.
Speaker 2:Like I've learned everybody's a fucking human and nobody is really messed up and no one's that much better or smarter or anything than everyone else, and then those are the people I don't.
Speaker 3:We've had plenty of those on the show. Oh yeah, take your sunglasses off you asshole.
Speaker 1:How many people do you have around you, geez, how much longer do we have? Yeah.
Speaker 2:Exactly Exhausting, just waiting for the next break. Pretty much Okay, Bye, oh man. But I'm curious, like what are some of the learnings you guys have had on the podcast so far that have gotten you here, and kind of, what does the next? I mean couple, I mean months or learnings, or maybe it is just so free flowing to still figuring it out and learning.
Speaker 3:I mean we definitely have things we know we want to hit on every show and things that our listeners missed from the radio show that we try to incorporate. But yeah, I don't know. I think for right now we're just we're getting to a good spot. We're almost, you know, sold out on our show, which is nice, with advertisers and people that want to support and be a part of it and know that we can get the word out for them, and so I think we're just kind of getting ready to, you know, get, get past that hump of you know, the financial stuff, because that's scary.
Speaker 3:Yeah scary when you start a new business and it's kind of on you and it's yeah, it can be very taxing but we're getting there and we're giving ourselves grace because everything, like Frankie said, is a process and it's got to grow and you don't plant a garden and the next day it's fruitful. Right, you got to wait and there's a lot of learning in the waiting.
Speaker 1:And we know we're in a better position than somebody. You know, because of what we've built and because of the listeners and how grateful we are for them and our sponsors. So we've built something over the years and starting this podcast, we are in a better position than most. But, that being said, it's tough. I mean, it's really thin financially.
Speaker 2:And it doesn't mean you don't have to work harder and do all this, but then again it's like where that good stress comes in. You're working on something that you want to do instead of being told by a suit that you're not doing.
Speaker 1:And we talked about this on however many episodes ago of our show not having to just be on pins and needles and didn't realize until we're away from it. You see your phone. You'd see the boss text you or an email come in, lots of emails, right. Boss texts you or an email, right, and your butt puckers like here we go. Here we go, like what is it this time? And that's what it was the last couple of years of now. What is it? You know it's the sky is falling. We needed this yesterday. You guys are it's like oh my, it's like it always came down to us Like you're not doing this right, you're or do it, so we don't have to worry about that it's like, and why should I listen to you?
Speaker 2:I've never done this. You don't really know what you're talking about.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so true but the perceptuals, which are bullshit. Going back to that eight people, that are listening with meters.
Speaker 1:It's like we're living and dying by eight people. Oh, it's ridiculous. Yeah, and they're excited over eight people. What did you guys do? Why are there only five people listening they? Might've gotten out of the car to go to the grocery store and drop the kids off. I'm like, ah, we're pretty sure it's you guys, though. Yeah, right, yeah, I mean, that's the stuff we dealt with the worst.
Speaker 2:No, that's just a little piece, yeah, a little sliver, just a small piece of the pie. But I mean, do you like to do? I know you have your son, Axel, and it's fun to see how much time you spend with him. You go to concerts and it's so fun to see I imagine that's a big part of it too is you get to show up for him a lot more as your best self.
Speaker 1:We're more engaged when we talk about that. We're just so much more present now, for which, again, I thought I was, but then we tried. Yeah, we were trying, but we didn't have the perception that we thought we had. As far as we're doing it, we're showing up for families and friends, but now we're truly engaged and just enjoying every moment and looking for those silver linings, the whole lens of how we look at things now is so different.
Speaker 1:It's just so different. We appreciate a lot more than what we did Just the time, like you said, the moments that we have, whereas before maybe physically we're there, but mentally, mentally probably not oh, we were always chasing sleep.
Speaker 3:I was always exhausted, exhausted and short tempered. Oh we I mean frank would get up at like three. I would get up at 3, 30, it was so exhausting. And then we're night owls and so he would take like a sleep cocktail to shut down and I would just lay there like, okay, the alarm's going off in three hours. Okay, two hours, like it was just never quality sleep and it eventually kills you. And it not only kills you, but you're exhausted and you're just, you've got a temper and it just. It's not a good way to live. It's just not feasible to keep up that way. And Frank did that schedule for almost three decades I was almost two decades and it just it wears on you, it wears on your family and I mean I was becoming like a recluse. I didn't want to be around people because I just was like I have nothing left in the tank and I'm an extrovert and I love people. It was really changing me as a person.
Speaker 1:I did it for 30 years actually, from 93 when I started mornings in Jacksonville, Florida, so it was April, almost like 30 years to the day. April of 1993 is when I was hired there and then we were fired. April of 2023. So, that's when that funky crazy schedule started, like you know, getting up in the middle of the night, napping in the day, and, like Jess said, I mean it would and we didn't know then. We know now that would have definitely shaved years off of our life.
Speaker 1:We would have died Like a stroke, heart attack, something, how?
Speaker 2:could it not? No, I mean, especially when you go from giving your best energy and your best self to the show, to the listeners, to everybody that wanted it to, all of a sudden you're like, oh, I can actually be my best self and go do that. Because, again, if you're an extrovert, you get energy from being around people and interacting with, but to give in that then you can't even recharge your own batteries, only to just to keep trying to run this cycle it over.
Speaker 3:We were depleted, and that's the thing. Every show took every bit of what we had, but that's how much we loved it, and sometimes we prioritized it over our families. You know, at least I did.
Speaker 3:I was like, that was our top card. You know, that's what we were known for, that's what we do, that's who we are. And so when the rug gets pulled out from underneath you after all those years, it is, it's damaging, and thank God we go back to you know, therapy and our families and just kind of looking within, what really matters. This life is short. You get one trip. What?
Speaker 1:really matters and it was a gift from the universe. We realized that shortly after, like we knew it was a blessing in disguise, that gift that had, you know, dust on it. We're like blowing that dust off. Hey, there's a bow on this box. It is a gift from the universe. Yes, I got you something. It's sleep. It's what's for dinner? Yeah, no, it truly is a blessing in disguise. And again, the longer away from it, the more we see it Like okay.
Speaker 2:Totally Better quality of life. Everyone around you is like wait, they're around, they are present.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and level headed, clear headed, like, like I don't forget anything. I was always forgetting stuff and you know, it was like my brain was so depleted and so exhausted.
Speaker 2:And it was just I was. I was becoming somebody I didn't like no, and that's the worst. When you can see it happening, you're like this isn't, this isn't me this isn't nice and to have that reason.
Speaker 2:And I also love those moments of life where I mean again, at first it feels so daunting, you're daunting, you're like my personality has taken away, my life has taken away, everything I know has been taken away. 30 years of my life feels like it's been taken away and it's always one of those like the best thing that could have happened to me because it transitioned into something else. And it does. It. Does it happen overnight? No, absolutely not. But it does take work. It does take showing up. It does does take a lot of like that stress. But at the end of the day, when you see these fruits and again when people see that in you, you're like I didn't know it was as bad as it was.
Speaker 3:Here we are when we were too loyal to leave. I mean we had built something right it. It's so rare to be on a morning show that long and to be on a morning show that long together. I mean it's rare, rare, rare. It look all across the country and it's very, very rare. Oh my gosh, big time they actually love each other.
Speaker 1:A lot of them fake it. Yeah, a lot of them hate each other?
Speaker 2:They do. They have little smiles and then everything stops. Yeah mics off and they're like F, you, you know, yeah, yeah, but it is. Oh, I forgot where I was going with that. What were we?
Speaker 3:talking about. No, you're good. What were we to leave? Way too loyal to leave. We knew what we had built. We were going to give it our all and we were giving it our all even though they didn't think we were giving it our all. You got to lean into it more.
Speaker 1:Jess, you got to lean in. We kept telling them. They kept saying you got to lean in more. I'm like if we lean in any more, we're going to be literally flat on our faces, and we ended up falling flat on our faces.
Speaker 3:It was a gift Dutch Bros coffee line every morning and you had to get there early because that one in West Valley man, it gets packed and I have to have my coffee to function, especially at that hour, and every morning I would sit in that line and pray to God please help me, please release me, please do something drastic. I can't do this anymore. It's eroding me as a human, and he did Forever grateful.
Speaker 2:It's always those moments where you're like I need something to change.
Speaker 1:And I bet you're like not like that. Yeah, you didn't have to come in after we went on vacation. We did a monday show and then you come in and you're like, and you're no longer needed here. Here is, uh, the papers from hr.
Speaker 3:And there's the door it was crazy, but at least we had great vacations. It was an awesome last show. So there's a lot, like you said. There's more, there's silver linings there, but it's all a part of the journey, man, totally.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, and it's nice too that you guys are so action oriented, because there's a lot of people could have a situation like that and do have to be in similar situations, where it's like sitting on their hands staring at the floor and just like on a parallel which is like fine, like there is definitely that period of shock.
Speaker 3:It's death.
Speaker 2:It's a mourning, mourning process, totally, and it's. But there's definitely that time where, like I, need to pick myself up and go, cause no one's going to do it for you. No one's going to look at this helpless puddle on the ground and say, oh, let me do everything for you, let me put my life on pause while I put everything back together, cause there's something I've learned in the past two or three years it's like no one's going to, no one's going to step in your life and do everything that you want you're right, one's gonna look out for your best interest.
Speaker 2:No one's going to do everything for you. There's people that'll help, there's people that that have good intent, but the end of the day you're the captain, and you're the only one that'll know if it's a sinking ship or if you're cruising towards america to go to have a thanksgiving dinner with some friends and we started recording man right after, like a month after.
Speaker 1:Oh, I didn't want to, I didn't want to. He was like come on it was so cute.
Speaker 3:He was my little cheerleader. He's like come on, we're gonna. I was like I don't want to be on film I'm upset but it was like he we did this time capsule, yeah, and I'm glad that we did that well and it did so.
Speaker 1:We almost didn't skip. I mean, there was a month that went by, but we almost didn't skip a beat. We're like we gotta if we're gonna do this. And we weren't allowed to publish them. So that was another thing, because we were under those contracts. It's like a little journal. It was like an audible, audible diary exactly, and it was just captured. So we're kind of processing through it and now we have like, yeah, this time capsule of bonus episodes.
Speaker 3:So by the time we launched january 2nd, we had like 50 plus episodes that we had put in the can it was cool baby, it's Maverick time, it was so good it was, and I love that our listeners that have been with us for so long can listen to those, because we'll kind of filter those in the time capsule ones and they're like it's so cool to hear just the difference in the confidence and how you guys did lock in again and it was neat to hear you know that was real life and that's where we were at and that's okay to show all of those faces because we all go through different things and we have, and that's something that I think, uh, we, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I think that's where the deep connections come in. We're just very vulnerable I mean, we don't, you know, almost too vulnerable ask his mother why'd you say it again like you talk too much, you say too much.
Speaker 2:I'm like it's a talk show. Yeah, yeah italian.
Speaker 1:What do you want? What do you want from me? But I don't know, I. But being vulnerable, yeah, just like we've always been that way, and it's not bullshit, it's not stuff that you know where consultants come in like being vulnerable, that is the new that's the word of the year yeah, it's like what get out of here? Authenticity. That's like yeah, that's what we said. You win from day one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we know we've been doing it like we didn't need a 20 point powerpoint yeah, a three-hour meeting in jimmy john's.
Speaker 3:Let us go home, we know what we're doing.
Speaker 2:Jimmy john's but it's also so nice you had each other too no I know, imagine if you had to go through that individually, try to put together the pieces individually, but instead, because of like all this history and context and love, you're like nah, we're, we're doing this together. Yeah, we're ride or dies.
Speaker 3:We're ride or dies and we love doing the show. Eventually we want to have some spinoff stuff. He loves hiking and outdoors and doing shows with Axel and his guy friends and I want to do some female-based stuff. So it's going to keep growing, but for right now we're just enjoying the ride.
Speaker 2:And that's the right way to do it, because you won't even know what to do until you settle in, understand where it's going. Because, like again, like I'm a big believer in don't make a decision, like, don't wait too long to make a decision. Also like, sit there, but you have to be like okay, I need to make the right decision, I need to think enough, but not too much, yeah, to to really make that action oriented and know what I want to do, instead of like because again someone could have come to you at like that to be like hey, come on, it's got to keep going, you got to keep going, there's nothing you can't do, you can't pause, you can't stop but instead you're like no, we need to. Like, we need to think about this, we'll do this together. We'll start kind of figure out and refine as we go.
Speaker 3:But which was nice to have those, you know, the three month and the six month outs gave us time to regroup and to communicate. I mean, we were, we were on the phone every single day and that's just huge connection and that you know, our spouses were, you know, helping us and coaching us and they're a part of it, Like our families are very much a part of this network that we're building and it's just really cool.
Speaker 3:It's a family affair and we can do it our way, and our family and our friends and our listeners and advertisers everybody gets to benefit from it, and that's who we are. That's who we are. We're all in it together and it's cool.
Speaker 1:We don't have to worry about those texts or emails from the bosses going oh, there's a problem.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Nope, Not our problem anymore. Exactly no more butt puckers. I know right that butt tightening up like here we go, I won't put anything in there.
Speaker 3:Oh they no. I don't want that either.
Speaker 1:We call it the corporate colonoscopy. For the last year and a half we'd have weekly colonoscopies where they'd get up in there and they'd be looking, but they wouldn't put you out.
Speaker 3:No no.
Speaker 1:They kept you awake. Anesthesia no, you're not getting that.
Speaker 2:You're like.
Speaker 1:I thought this was supposed to be every few years, not weekly. It was a weekly colonoscopy from. Our consultants Dreaded that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, oh gosh, I just went back there.
Speaker 2:not fun, let's get out of there yeah, yeah, I wouldn't want to go back to my users houses either I'd probably just stand at the door for a while, like are you gonna? Go in?
Speaker 3:I don't know yet like we have ice cream in here.
Speaker 2:I don't care, it's not working anymore. Your little plans we have puppies do the puppies have money? You're right, oh, that's funny. Oh man. Well, guys, thank you so much. I kind of want to wrap up with, unless there's anything else we want to cover or go through, I don't know. Yeah, you're good, we could go forever.
Speaker 3:I know you have two people.
Speaker 2:I could sit here and talk forever and we could go through everything, but I want to wrap up with the two questions. I always ask everybody someone on the Small Lake City podcast and hear about them and what they're up to. Who do you want to hear from?
Speaker 1:Ooh, is it somebody like anybody or is somebody within Salt Lake?
Speaker 2:I mean some sort of connection usually, but Okay, I don't know, you go.
Speaker 1:I'm thinking. Put me on the spot here. I don't know.
Speaker 3:You know what I would probably have? Shelly Smith, house of Smiths I don't know if you know she is when social media started. She's like one of the OG influencers, okay, and she's a single mom of three girls and she's just an amazing person and she's been through hell and she's very open and vulnerable and she's very inspiring and thought her life was going to go one way and it completely took a turn and how she, you know, did the pivot from that and it wasn't easy, but she's one of the OGs. She's one of the OGs House of Smiths and a lot of women follow her. She's got a massive following and a lot of people have learned from her doing the work. So I have huge respect for her. She's a good friend. She hasn't been on our show yet, but she would be a great one to have on Small Lake City because so many people either follow her, know her or look up to her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, it sounds like a super inspiring person with a great story.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Love that.
Speaker 1:You know, I don't know if, like, we're friends with Nate Nate Eaton, like he's somebody that is I don't know how you feel about that so but he's the East Idaho news guy, so he's like ingrained with all the, basically all the stories and there's a lot of that are coming out of, like Idaho with the Daybells and-.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the college murders yeah.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of weird stuff happening in Idaho. I know what is up with Idaho. What's with the potatoes?
Speaker 3:And so seriously and so many people are moving there.
Speaker 1:I'm like yikes, he's somebody that we can put you in touch with. We're going to get him on our show again. Investigative reporter. Yeah, very articulate, he's just a great guy to talk to, uh, but his name is nate eat.
Speaker 2:Nate, nate, he's a good one east idaho news. You'd like him. Yeah, there's a lot of interesting stuff going up there and he would know yeah oh, he's on the like.
Speaker 3:He's the guy, he is. He gets all the awards. He is the guy in idaho. He knows everything about every case. He's got a family. He's a family dude, he is. He's so dynamic we don't know how he does it.
Speaker 1:Several date lines, yeah, so when they're talking about because these are national stories, like with the Daybells and you know, the little kid that went missing, remember the little boy that went missing, the three-year-old, four-year-old, anyway, he's just all he's like connected and he's a great interviewer. He's very well-spoken and just interesting.
Speaker 2:And then, lastly, if people you find out more about the podcast, what's the best place to find you?
Speaker 1:Probably listen to frankieandjesscom. Yeah, our website.
Speaker 3:So we have like an email subscription there and we do weekly well actually monthly newsletters now and we've got our merch shop and all the TV shows we've been on and people that have been on our podcasts and testimonials and there's lots of fun stuff on there. Photo albums from way back in the day.
Speaker 1:And it's easy to find the podcast. We're on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Those are the two big ones. We might be on some of the other platforms as well, but those are the two huge ones out there and it's just yeah, it's just Frankie and Jess, the Frankie and Jess podcast.
Speaker 3:And Instagram. We post a lot on Insta, so listen to Frankie and Jess. Is our handle so easy to find?
Speaker 1:us or our website. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's in the frank angel website.
Speaker 3:I think I said psych website.
Speaker 2:It's a website, look it up. I dare you not. Not good url does not exist. Yeah got him.
Speaker 1:Can I ask you where so small lake city? Where did you come up with the the term small lake?
Speaker 3:because here, get the paper, get the briefcase out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no got paperwork, because this is like, as soon as I moved here, that is a term that I started using on the radio and I would be like, oh my gosh, it's small Lake city and it was the whole thing of you meet somebody that knows somebody that is small.
Speaker 2:Lake Heaven bacon thing yeah. So when?
Speaker 1:I heard about this from our listener, adam, and he connected us together. I was like there's a, there's a podcast, small Lake city, so anyway, where?
Speaker 2:did you come up with it? So it's actually kind of funny because, like, again, it's something I'd always heard. I mean, I'm out on the town or meet someone that they know my sister from high school Like it's, all these like little, like the, the, the tightness of the social weave of this fabric is very high threat, yeah, and like that, you know, egyptian sheet do not breathe in the summer, um, and so I'd always use it. And then I again I was like humming and hawing over what I wanted to do, and then podcast came to mind and I was listening to interview podcasts. I was like, well, I kind of want to do that. I was like, well, what do I call it? And then I was like, oh, small lake city, because I always heard it as s-m-a-l-l-t, so it's like small and salt, oh. And so when I first launched the podcast I called it small lake city. And then enough people like, why did you do that?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, and then everyone's, and then everyone's, like I think it's small. And then, as I heard that enough, I was like shit but that would have been very utah, yeah, do small like look at how we spell it, but you don't pronounce a t, it's a silent t.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's not tuli, or hurricane or hooper, and then so, and I was like, shoot, I need to change this. And then I like to like, the only person that helps me with stuff is my graphic designer and love him, but he's a little slow to respond sometimes. Oh, we hate that. And so I was like, hey, man, we gotta I need everything again.
Speaker 2:Just take out the tea and then, so finally did that Instagram handle was there. But yeah, I mean it's. It's everybody who's from here knows exactly what that means. But the funniest part about it is the more that I like kind of chase the energy of Small Lake City, the more it comes right back at me, like even on there's one recently on an episode a couple ago and I posted a reel about it on Instagram. But I was sitting down with.
Speaker 2:His name is Bobby Johnson, he's the most recent winner on Ink Master, and so his Instagram handles, glendale Bully, which if you're from Salt Lake, you're like oh, he grew up in Glendale, which a lot of people think he's born and raised and lived in San Diego, but born in Salt Lake, grew up in Glendale, moved to San Diego and now moved back here and we were sitting down to record in his studio that he works out of here is like right across the street from Trolley Square and just south of Trolley Corner, and I was like, oh, yeah, because I went to go meet him and his girlfriend because I was messaging her Long story short I DM'd him and he's like, yeah, I'll do it, but then didn't really respond anymore. So I submitted a message on their website and then I was messaging his girlfriend. He's like she's like, honestly, just come in and talk to him. So I go in and talk to him. I'm like, oh, this is right below below, where I used to get my hair cut.
Speaker 2:He's like, wait, who used to cut your hair? I'm like, oh, her name's Brooke and he's like Brooke Matherly. I'm like, yeah, he's like, oh, I've tattooed her. I'm working on her boyfriend's sleeve. We hang out all the time. I'm going to their wedding. Oh yeah, but it's so fun too because, like I mean, it's fun until it's not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, until you're like it's a little too close, it's a hex A little too close. The walls or the mountains feel a little too close together. But that's even how we got connected with listener Adam Exactly.
Speaker 2:Adam Barker. That's cool, so it's a fun energy to chase. I'm waiting for, like that bad moment.
Speaker 1:It's coming, it's coming.
Speaker 3:Oh jeez. Okay, how long have you been doing your podcast? How many?
Speaker 2:episodes are you? First episode launched on October 20th and this let's see I've released 35, will be this week, and then I think I've three or four on the back burner, Cool.
Speaker 3:Right, yeah, that's fun. So you release like once a week yeah once a week. Yeah, once that sounded really dirty, sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Episodes once a week? Yeah, no, I started biweekly and then I got to this point where I probably so. My rule before I started was I'm going to have five episodes recorded before I release anything. So I have a little bit of a back burner. That's good, and I I'd not like chasing to catch us. But then the problem was like the first episode I recorded with George and Charlie was in like end of July and I released in October and everything was spread in between there. So I'm like, shoot, there's a potential. These will get really stale if I do it biweekly. So what am I going to do? And so I'm like we're going a weekly and then, yeah, it's kind of been there ever since.
Speaker 3:And it's just kind of just been this like consistent cycle. I know kind of when to release things, when to edit things. You're natural, though yeah, you are, you could tell it's we like it. I mean just even your equipment. When we walked in I'm like, okay, this is profesh, like we're, this is cool. You know it's fun to the setup that you've provided and, yeah, it's awesome. What do you do besides podcasting, like?
Speaker 2:for work. Yes, I work. Uh, I mean typical utahn working a startup tech startup in lehigh. Do like data and analytics. Look at numbers, tell people what they mean that's awesome.
Speaker 3:That's awesome.
Speaker 1:Hopefully your numbers aren't bullshit I'm not sure they're more dialed in than what we had over at the radio, can't?
Speaker 2:speak too soon, finds out all numbers are bullshit. Let's sell the company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, that's awesome great I mean it's been so fun to see because, like I knew you guys were great personalities and fun people. Because I mean again, people have said that the entire time and I've followed and watched some episodes but so fun just to be able to sit down with both of you and get to know you better and and and understand more of who you are, and so so excited to keep listening to the podcast, so excited to see where it all goes and excited for the spinoffs yeah, that'd be fun. No, I'm big fan and excited to see where I'll go.
Speaker 2:So, thanks for thanks for not giving up, thanks for not going to a radio, thanks for being yourselves, and I know I'm I'm definitely not the only one that feels that sentiment.
Speaker 3:We appreciate that, Thank you. That means a lot and you know a lot of people smell like city. It's yeah it becomes more and.
